Dr. Evan Hirsch 0:03

Part of the problem with a lot of Lyme Doc's is that they're going directly at the infection, they hit it hard with antibiotics or anti microbials, or whatever they're using, then they take them back. And then the symptoms come back because the infection comes back because they haven't dealt with the reason why the immune system is not there to help them out. But it has to be this combination of immune system plus anti microbials in order to bring those bugs back into balance, so that when you are done treating, you're actually done.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 0:32

Welcome to the longevity blueprint podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie gray. My number one goal with the show is to help you discover your personalized plan to build your dream healthy and live a longer, happier, truly healthier life. You're about to hear from Dr. Evan Hirsch. And I'm going to forewarn you here, we're going to dive deep into some topics that may potentially be new to you. Chapter nine of my book, Your longevity blueprint gets into the importance of strengthening the immune system which I compare to that protective roof of your home. Talk a little bit about mold, lime and viruses there. And today in our discussion, we're gonna dive even deeper into various other causes of fatigue, discussing co infections like the BCR and bartonella, which are some of the 33 causes Dr. Hirsch has found for 50 Welcome to another episode of the longevity blueprint podcast today I have on my show Dr. Evan Hirsch.

He is the number one best selling author of fix your fatigue the four step process to resolving fatigue, achieving abundant energy and reclaiming your life. He is also one of the world's leading experts on finding the root causes of fatigue and resolving them naturally. He suffered with fatigue for five years before he achieved resolution using the fixed your fatigue program that he developed and his medical practice. He has helped thousands of people optimize their energy naturally and is on a mission to help 1 million more through his online programs and the training of providers. He works Mainly with exhausted health conscious everyday people who can't reach their potential because of fatigue and low energy. In 2018, he transitioned to a virtual practice so that he could work remotely with people around the world. He now helps other doctors do the same so they can have more impact, more success and greater quality of life. He has lectured nationally and internationally on toxic topics and integrative and functional medicine and is board certified in family medicine and integrative medicine. When he's not at the office, you can find him singing in musicals, playing basketball, traveling, dancing, hip hop and spending time with his wife and daughter. So welcome to the show. Dr. Hirsch. Did I say your name correctly? You did great.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 2:38

Dr. Stephanie, thanks so much for having me on.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 2:40

You bet. Well, let's open with your story. I A lot of patients of mine and myself, have suffered with fatigue and you have as well so I like to dive deeper into that. Can you share your story and kind of how you healed yourself from fatigue?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 2:53

Absolutely. So I was just starting my family medicine residency program. I graduated in medical school, very exciting time in my life, I moved out to the west coast just south of Seattle. And I met my wife she was she was living and working locally, we fell in love. And three months later, she couldn't get out of bed. And that lasted for three years. So that was my first taste of it. And here I am supposed to be at the the pinnacle of my education. And I'm asking everybody and their mother about fatigue. And there's really not much from a conventional standpoint. And so I started digging elsewhere. Because I knew that I had to find additional answers. So then after that, then she got better over time and she got better with saunas and boosting adrenals and doing a lot of emotional work. That was like a big one for her. And then we got married, we had a kid we, I started a practice, graduated, residency, all that sort of stuff. And then a couple years later, I crashed out with fatigue and I had it for five years and so that really put me on the path to figuring out I knew that If I could figure out the causes, that I could resolve my fatigue, but I didn't realize that, that there were going to be 33 different causes and that I was going to have all of them.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 4:10

Wow, I want to get into those. So you're a fatigue expert. So how does treating fatigue and finding all these causes also optimized longevity specifically?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 4:21

Yeah. So that's, that's a great question. And so it's kind of two sides to the coin. You know, if you can treat fatigue, you can pretty much treat anything because like I said, 33 different causes. It just so happens that those 33 causes are also causes of dysfunction and the opposite of longevity. So we know that you know, the main killers in this life, heart disease, heart attack, stroke, cancer, Alzheimer's, all of those things are actually caused by those same things that cause fatigue. So fatigue is just the sign that these things are wrong earlier, oftentimes, then some of these other ones were, you know, there Going, these causes are going to attack different parts of the body, they're going to fester over longer periods of time.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 5:05

So let's get into those causes. Where do we start? I know right?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 5:09

Yeah. Overwhelmed by 33 different causes. So they really can be broken up into deficiencies and toxicities. So deficiencies are things that aren't in the body that need to be. And and toxicities are things that are in the body that aren't supposed to be in the body. So deficiencies are things like hormones, nutrients, lifestyle habits, like not enough sleep, not enough good food, not enough water. Not enough exercise, things like mitochondrial dysfunction, you know the mitochondria is in every cell in the body except for red blood cells and produces 70 to 80% of the energy that we have. I saw that that you guys at longevity blueprint have a great mitochondrial product, you know, that fits right in there. And then the toxicities are All about things like heavy metals, you know, hundred thousand pounds of mercury are dumped into our oceans every single year that we're exposed to chemicals at 4000 chemicals we're exposed to on a regular basis that haven't been appropriately assessed by the FDA.

Everything from cosmetics to plastics, the pesticides, you know, molds, about half of the buildings in our country are water damaged. And most of those have mold. And then infections. You know, CDC went from saying that we had 30,000 cases of Lyme, a year to 300,000 cases of Lyme, a year just a couple of years ago. And I see a lot of those different kinds of what are stealth infections are sometimes there's infections in the gut like yeast, bacteria, parasites, and then negative emotions, like I talked about, my wife got better working on her emotions, you know, all of these things are going to stress out the body and the body. body's like a big barrel. And as you fill it up with crap, eventually you get to a tipping point and when that happens, then you Start to get symptoms, whether it's fatigue, autoimmunity, cancer, you know, and so our goal is to poke a hole in the bottom, remove all of those toxicities replace those deficiencies, and let the body do the rest.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:13

Sounds easy, but it's not. Let's go back to improving mitochondrial function. So I've actually had a couple previous guests talk about diet for improving mitochondrial health with Dr. Terry walls also from Iowa. I also have had two different clinicians talk about peptides for boosting mitochondrial function, which is very interesting. Let's talk briefly about the top nutrients that will energize our mitochondria really fuel the mitochondria. So break down your your top three or four favorites.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 7:44

So I like co q 10. d ribose. And acetyl l carnitine.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:51

Awesome. So let's talk about each of those and even dosing obviously, we're not giving medical advice. This is all educational. But let's talk about how those work and how you dose them in your patients.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 8:04

So I actually use them in a combination product, but we will and that product is called ATP 360. I just find it to be incredibly supportive, because there is a synergy, but we can definitely talk about individual dosing as well. So, you know, acetyl l carnitine, is generally dosed at 500 to 1000 milligrams, usually two times a day. What I like to do with mitochondrial support, as well as with a lot of these other stimulating products like adrenals, thyroid b 12, is I like to give them in the morning, usually morning sometimes at noon, but I find that that really helps re you know, recreate the circadian rhythm. A lot of these people have sleep issues that I deal with, and I get more people to sleep by giving them things in the morning, like adrenal thyroid mitochondrial support than I do by giving them anything at night. So acetyl l carnitine. And that dosing the D ribose. is usually five or 10 grams, one to two times a day. And then the CO q 10. I like 200, sometimes 300 milligrams per day, usually in the morning.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 9:06

Sure, though, so those can help literally fuel our mitochondria. I had one of my staff members this week ash actually asked me Well, how do I test my model mitochondria? Is there a test to tell me if they're, you know, if they're deficient, if they're they don't have the energy they need. And I had to think about that for a second. And I thought, well, there really isn't a test that I know of, other than we can run a nutritional deficiency assessment, looking at levels of coenzyme Q 10. I don't think To my knowledge, we can't test D ribose levels in the body. But I know we can test carnitine levels for sure. We can test things like Bluetooth ion. So that was my answer to her that we can test to see if you're nutritionally deficient and if you are, we can assume your mitochondria Need help? How would you answer that question?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 9:56

So for people with fatigue, they all have mitochondrial dysfunction. You know, and and a lot of that comes from the fact that the toxicities all damage the mitochondria, so the heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections, I call those the usual suspects. They all essentially squashed the mitochondria. And so, yes, we need to give it the fuel like we're talking about with these nutrients. But then we also have to remove the crap lips and crap the crap off of the mitochondria so that it can come back to life.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 10:24

So you have a process. So let's go through that. Let's try to make the complex simple. So what's your four step process that you use to remove these causes?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 10:35

So the first step is to assess this is to figure out the exact causes that people have. So when I see people who have fatigue, they generally have around 20 or so of the 33 different causes. Now, once again, don't get overwhelmed because actually you can determine 75% of those causes can be determined by symptoms alone. So I have people I've got a 70 Plus page packet in my program. where people go through and they're able to check off their symptoms and determine what their causes are for that 75%. The other 25% are a lot of the usual suspects that heavy metals, chemicals, molds and infections that we like to get testing on. But then you can actually determine, you know, what's gonna be the best use of your time and your money. But the first step is to assess, then you find out which causes you have and then you take it to step two, which is to replace the deficiencies.

Now, I should stop here and say, this whole process is all about step four. It's all about the toxicities it's all about the usual suspects. If you get take nothing else from this lecture, it's about finding your causes and removing the toxicities but the thing is, we can't go directly at the toxicities because people just feel worse. If you start detoxing. If you start removing this crap out of the body, you have to boost up those things that are deficient first, so adrenals and thyroid and sex hormones and mitochondria and Fix the lifestyle habit and all that sort of stuff because people are going to feel better faster. By doing that, you know, they get a couple upticks in their energy, they go from a three out of 10 with 10 being ideal to a five out of 10 changes their life, and then they have a lot more energy to then go into Step three, which is opening up detoxification pathways, so that we can go into Step four, and remove those toxicities now, so that's step two. Step three is opening up those detox pathways and the way that I like to think about the body and detoxification is like these series of tubes.

So that you know, like the intestines, our tube, got to make sure that you're pooping twice a day, ideally, but if it's a good one once a day, then that's okay. But make sure you're going to the bathroom. Make sure that liver and kidney pathways are open, you're drinking enough water you're taking the herbs you need to take that the limb for the garbage system of the body has been open because if you start dumping things if you start pulling things out of the tissues into the limb, and guess what, and it's clogged downstream, it's just going to be coming back up into your sink, per se. So it's important to have all those pathways open because once you start pulling those things out, you're going to feel worse if you don't have those pathways open.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 13:17

Totally agree. And in my book in chapter five of the longevity blueprint, I compare the laundry room in our home to the liver and gallbladder and I should have included more limp there. So maybe round two, I will but but essentially, you can't wash your clothes without soap and water, right? So you need in this analogy, I'm saying you need the proper nutrients to help your liver and gallbladder function appropriately. And so that's what it sounds like in your four step process. You're priming the body to have enough of the nutrients necessary so that you can get the tubes open and you can prime the detox pathway so that when you get to step four, it's going to work well and you're not going to have as many side effects through that process of treating those infections.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 13:59

Yeah. I love that analogy that's great.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 14:04

Did you be missing out on magnesium if you aren't already taking magnesium you likely should be are deficient food sources caffeine consumption, stress and exercise Roberts of magnesium, which is an important cofactor for hundreds of processes in the body. It can calm your mind and ease your nerves to help you sleep at night and help reduce anxiety, PMS and headaches. It can relax your muscles when you have cramps your bowels when you're constipated, and it's required for energy hormone production and vitamin D absorption. If you're interested in exploring more about how magnesium can help support you living a longer, healthier life and the exact type of magnesium supplement to look for, check out my blog post the magnificence of magnesium found at your longevity blueprint.com forward slash blog and use code magnesium for 10% off our magnesium keylite product at your longevity blueprint calm. Now let's get back to the episode.

So let's talk about chronic infections. So, I we live in I live in Iowa here. And we do have lots of patients who have had Lyme disease, I would say more commonly what I find is mold. We've had several floods here. And a lot of my patients have been subject to mold from the floods. But also, as you mentioned, 50% of commercial buildings have water damage. And I have seen that mold destroy patient's health. Luckily, many of them have been able to rebuild that. But it took a while for us to find that through proper assessment, like one of your steps here. So can you speak a little bit to chronic infections and what you see so I've seen a lot of mold, I see a little bit of Lyme, but all of those can be difficult to treat. And we know that co infections can exist, which I think you call stealth infections in your in your book, your book is very comprehensive. I highly, highly recommend it. So feel free to speak to that. But I want to spend some time on chronic infections because I think this is probably one of the top neglected steps with conventional medicine. They're not finding a lot of these infections. So patients are never getting treated and they're never getting better. So many functional medicine practitioners know to improve gut health they know to replete nutritional deficiencies, but they never get to the infection part. And I think that's something that really in your book stands out. So let's, I'll just give the microphone back to you and start talking about infections.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 16:18

Yeah, that's a really important point, because I totally agree with you. You know, a lot of times if you're seeing like a Lyme specialist, oftentimes, they're just doing Lyme. They're not looking at mold or heavy metals or chemicals. And there's gonna be, you know, if you're not looking at a broad differential, you're not looking at 33 different causes, you know, you're gonna miss something, and then the person's you know, they'll they'll probably keep getting better, but they're just not going to get all the way better. mold is such an important topic. I'm glad you brought that up. And then we'll get to infections in just a little bit. But yeah, the you know, I've found that you can't get rid of infections if somebody's got mold. You know, the mold in specifically mold but heavy metals and chemicals. Also are going to basically take that immune system, hijack it off into left field. And then the bugs that are present have a party, because most of the time, you know, these bugs are living in balance, right? We're actually 90% bugs cells and 10% human cells, which always drives me crazy. And other people, you know, when you think about those stats, they're really amazing.

But most of these bugs, we actually are existing in balance, you know, sometimes you get an A big inoculation from a tick, or you get some sort of exposure, you know, but a lot of this stuff we get coming out of the womb, you know, moms dump all their good stuff and bad stuff into the baby through the placenta. And then you're walking around in your life until you have a number of stressful hits. And then those bugs become opportunistic, so you don't have to necessarily get bitten by a tick to have borrelia or bartonella or BCR. Any one of these guys that are known as Lyme type infections, you know, oftentimes they're imbalanced until they're not, you know, and it can be any sort of stressor because the adrenal is managing stress and they manage the immune system and the immune system manages these bugs. But it could be a mental emotional stressor. Like, for me, it was medical school. You know, some people have divorce. Some people have abuse, you know, it can be a number of these things mental, emotional, and then physical, like having a mold infested infestation, you know, and when I was in medical school, I guess medical school didn't do me any favors. But when I was in medical school, I also had exposure to mold.

One of the places that I lived in cats used to pee on the cardboard in the basement, you know, get your cardboard out of the basement, because cardboard grows mold very readily. And so that was that was one of those things that kind of puts you over and then the infections become opportunistic. So definitely get assessed for mold and mold I see is really a two part process. You have to stop your exposure to mold so you have to make sure you're not living in it. And then you have to get the mold out of your body. Because there's plenty of people that I see that have mold in their body, and they don't have any mold in their home. And that's because maybe when they were five years old, they lived in a moldy place for six to 12 months. And it's still in their body when they're 55 years old, because they haven't done anything to get rid of it. So that's a very important point.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 19:13

Yeah, that is that is. And I think genetically, some of us are programmed to be able to clear out mold toxins more easier than others. So that can explain why a couple can live in the same house and one is significantly impacted, while the other feels just fine and doesn't quite understand, which is something that I appreciate. Also, in your book, you say you got to get the spouse on board. It is really, really important. And I had a patient just yesterday who said, I just I can't I can't go there right now with mold because my husband is not on board and she's just frustrated and said, I can't I can't go there, but we'll talk next year. And to me, that's, I don't want to wait a year. You know, I want her to address that. But that's the reality. Let's so let's go back to mold here or stay on the mold topic. How do you assess for mold in your patients? What is your favorite way to assess for that.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 20:02

So for assessing for the mold in the patient, I really like a urine mycotoxin test. So that can be through Great Plains labs that can be through real time labs, I generally like to do a provocation. So had people take liposomal glue to find 500 milligrams twice a day for a week. And that just you know, pushes more mold out so you have more of a positive test doesn't skew the test. It just gives you I think a more real answer.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:27

Sure. And then what are your favorite binders? So let's say the patient has several different mycotoxins on that test. Obviously, we need to get them out of the moldy environment if they are still in one. What are your favorite binders to treat mold?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 20:41

Yeah, so I'm a fan of a column of combining them, you know, so I don't usually go with one or the other. I know that there are, you know, theoretically based off of the mycotoxin that's present, you can use a specific binder, but I just don't buy it. I think that you know, rotating them or having multiple happening at the same time can be really supportive. Have, so I'll use activated charcoal, I'll use fulvic acid, which is Sheila's eat, I'll use I don't know if that's how it's pronounced, but I like to say that word Sheila's use, I'll use some French clays that I really like. And these come in, you know, combination products. And then flaxseed and different fibers, you know, can also be really supportive. But yeah, like you said, like binders are the are their huge binders. Plus glutathione is usually, you know, a wonderful one two punch and having those pathways open.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 21:34

Now, do you find with some of your clients, I when I started treating patients for mold, patients were feeling better, but sometimes their testing would get worse initially before it would get better, because they're dumping more toxins, which is a good thing. Do you also see that?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 21:47

I do, but I also don't test that frequently. You know, so I will. I'm gonna treat them for six months, at least generally before I test and a lot and I'm going off of their subjective experience anyway, and I'm addressing all these causes, and it's like, Okay, if I'm not having results, then I'm going to test sooner. But most of the time they're progressing. And it's like, okay, we're on the right track. Yeah, so I don't see that that often anymore. But yes, absolutely.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 22:15

That's, you find that most of your moldy patients are moldy because of environmental contributors, or do you actually see foods be problematic for them also?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 22:27

Yeah, I think it's 95% environmental, you know, I know that, you know, they say that for some of these that they're food related. And yes, you know, there is mold in peanuts. There is mold and coffee, like you have to pay attention to these things. Yeah, I think I think it's, it's almost all the time environmental for the most part, because I think that those small amounts that people get in food often, I mean, you've got a pH of 123. And if your stomach acid is correct, it's going to take care of a lot of that. So that's my thought.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 23:00

So we mentioned fatigue as being one of the main symptoms of many of these infections. But what other symptoms Do you commonly see in your patients that may be as part of your symptom questionnaire?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 23:09

Yeah, so I love talking about this because a lot of times there's aha moments that people have, but this conglomeration of symptoms that are associated with a lot of these infections, you know, even the Centers for Disease Control say that the western blot test is just for epidemiologic studies, it's not for diagnosis, and that the clinical diagnosis is actually more accurate. And so that means the symptoms that kind of come together that show up that are more reflective of a particular infection. So for example, bartonella, which is found in upwards of 50% of all domestic animals, in acutely, it's considered cat Scratch Fever, you get like a large lymph node, oftentimes a rash, but chronically it shows up with neck pain, headaches, sometimes migraines, body pain, Oftentimes misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia. These people have a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep. They'll have anxiety and or depression. But some of the big symptoms are like pain on the bottom of the feet or pain in the hands and the feet. Sometimes it's like bone, deep bone pain, but sometimes it's burning on the bottom of the feet or a tenderness on the bottom and feet where they get out of bed and they really want to wear slippers all day long or get right into their shoes. Usually misdiagnosis plantar fasciitis. So whenever I hear plantar fasciitis, I always think of bartonella oftentimes,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 24:34

it sounds like Yeah,

Dr. Evan Hirsch 24:36

yeah, exactly. Oftentimes, there's muscle cramps, usually at night, usually in the calves. And sometimes those will get better by taking magnesium and potassium or drinking more water or quinine, but those are band aids, and generally you're just kind of treating the bartonella that's present. And then and then it causes thyroid issues. You know, one of the main causes that I found out Have autoimmune thyroid or hashimotos is bartonella. And I found that it serendipitously, I started treating bartonella. And I made people who are on thyroid, hyper thyroid and I was able to take about 50% of the people who are on thyroid off of their thyroid to a certain extent when they also had bartonella. So that's one of the really interesting ones that I see another one is visa. So the visa will cause intense sweating. So this is considered the North American malaria. So it causes cyclical sweating. I mean, sometimes it's every couple days, sometimes it's every couple of weeks, every couple months, but oftentimes, you'll soak the sheets at night. Sometimes you're the hottest person in the room, where you know, you'll see these people outside shoveling snow and T shirts. That might be for other reasons as well, but but usually they're the hottest person in the room.

Oh, I forgot to say bartonella is usually cold hands cold feet, that's not relieved with thyroid. Conversely, with bco, which is usually the hottest person in the room, they'll usually have awful sleep worse than bartonella. They'll have awful anxiety to the point of panic. Oftentimes panic attacks at night, they'll have awful depression to the point of suicidal thoughts. Most of the people who commit suicide, who have these Lyme type infections usually also have a visa. Sometimes they'll also have some sort of lung issues, usually a cough, but you don't have to have all those symptoms, you just kind of have to have one or two of them that are really significant. And then with borrelia, you know, which is the main one for Lyme, we named for Lyme, Connecticut back in the 80s. You can't have really unless you have a couple of symptoms. So you have to have symptoms that come and go. So you have good days and bad days. And you have to have symptoms that move around the body. So joint pain, muscle pain or nerve pain that moves around the body, and sometimes it's moving day to day. Sometimes it's moving week to week, sometimes it's moving month to month, where we'll be like okay, I got john Pain here. And then a couple weeks later, I got joint pain in my knee, you know, so it's kind of moving around the body or got electrical pain or numbness and tingling and you know, one hand one week and then the next week it's in the foot. So but if you don't have those symptoms, there's really not much else that causes that besides beryllium.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 27:19

So going back to and you were saying most diagnosis is based on clinical symptoms. Are you saying that there does not exist? Real accurate testing not just for Lyme, but also for Bcn? borrelia?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 27:32

Yes, I mean, the best test that I have found is the DNA connections tests which anybody can order you don't need a doctor's order. It's expensive. It's I think, $650 right now, but it's a urine PCR test. So a PCR is looking at the DNA of the bug. And you do want to provoke this test. I provoke every test I can if it's available, but with intense exercise for 30 minutes or a length massage, And that pushes the the bugs out of their hiding places, and then you collect them in your urine. But I've found that to be the best test. if let's say I'm missing, you know, let's say somebody's got anaplasma, you know, which has less specific symptoms, oftentimes that can be supportive for helping us to figure it out, or sometimes with these infections. To make things even more complicated, is sometimes based off of where you are in the world. Sometimes the symptoms associated with these infections are flip flopped. So you know, people on the East Coast sometimes all the symptoms that I said about bartonella might be from the bco for them, and I think a lot of this has to do with swapping DNA. I've I've kind of I haven't heard anybody else describe this term, but I think that sometimes people have bought Tunisia, which is a combination of beryllium, bartonella and visa, and they're like, in the biofilm, which they're hiding place. They're swapping DNA with each other, and we get some of these superbugs and you start Going after part of that bug, and the rest of the bug comes out, which I call the whack a mole effect. You're not gonna wind down the other one pops up. So, yeah, so that's that's generally what I see.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 29:10

Very interesting. Now, did I hear you right in saying that you do not have to have a tick bite to have these infections? So if, if that's, he's nodding, yes. So if that's the case, where are these coming from? Are you saying they're being passed down in utero? or How else is someone exposed to these?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 29:27

Yeah, that's a great question. So passed down in utero. Anybody you kiss, any sexual contact, anything that takes a blood meal. So we've now found them in the bellies of mosquitoes, chiggers, biting flies, you know, in addition to ticks,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 29:44

those all can spread, like you're saying, all those could be sources of spreading.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 29:49

Yeah, because you're taking blood from one animal and you're giving it to another. You know, you're swapping fluids between, you know, humans, you know, a sexual contact and when that's so common You know, where I see a couple? And it's like, well, you know, I didn't get worse until we got together. And oftentimes both people are bringing their own bugs to the equation. And sometimes, you know, I mean, I'm working with a couple right now or both of them have been affected negatively by the other person's bugs.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 30:17

I see that commonly with yeast that uses easy. A lot of times the easy to swap back and forth. So a lot of times I'll look at my patients tongues if the husband is in the appointment with the wife, sometimes he's the East he will look at his tongue and he may not be a patient but he may need to become a patient in order to appropriately treat both for for us to get rid of their symptoms. So I'm glad that you glad that you brought that up. Can you speak a little bit to biofilms so you alluded to them tell the audience what a biofilm is and why it's so important that we use biofilm busters to be able to treat these infections.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 30:53

Yeah, so biofilm are collaborationist material. It's kind of like this jelly like substance that exists on mucosal membranes, so all the way along from the mouth to the anus and throughout the body, and things like to hide in there. So you know, you can have, it's kind of made up of, of heavy metals oftentimes, and there's like this matrix that ends up getting created. And so part of this process and then the bugs hot underneath it, and they swap DNA with each other, you know, which makes for all sorts of different kinds of permutations of these infections that have to be remedied. And so oftentimes, you get to a point where somebody still has symptoms, but they are they're not 100% better, you've gotten them to a certain point where then you have to go after the biofilm. You know, if you break up the biofilm without having like an anti microbial onboard or ability, their ability to detox or ability to bind, then you're asking for trouble because it just releases everything that's been hiding that has kind of your body has maintained a homeostasis. You know, your body is trying to maintain a balance with a lot of these individual infections. And so you want to make sure that you're doing it in a judicious manner so that you're not releasing them at the wrong time. Because when you do release them, you want to make sure that you're killing them, you're binding them up, and your pathways are open so that you can get the crap out.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 32:16

Very good. So I know that treating all of these causes can be very complex, which is why listeners need to have a very experienced practitioner like yourself to walk them through this. So you I know, you can't just answer this in, you know, two minutes, but can you tell me typically in what order you like to treat these sort of infections as well as heavy metals, because I think that's really important. So you don't have to explain all of it but just briefly mentioned the importance of the order that you believe in.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 32:46

So what I like to do is I'm always going for the biggest shift in somebody's life, you know, I want to affect change as quickly as possible. So I'm going for the bug who's front and center. It typically a co infection. You generally don't go after beryllium or lime first, you're generally going after some of the other ones. And sometimes they're their worst offenders. But like if somebody's coming to me, and they've got paint on the bottom of the feet, and they've got muscle pain and problems sleeping, and blah, blah, whatever, but they also have the occasional night sweat. I might go after bartonella first, because that's more front and center in terms of the symptoms. And then oftentimes, BC is gonna pop out within all of a sudden, they're sweating like crazy. And it's like, oh, well, yeah, that's generally what happens but bc pops out, then we start adjusting visa. And as we get through those, if symptoms start rotating around the body and whatnot, some of these other ones get worse, then we'll start treating beryllium and it's not uncommon to layer these. I do like to do things in a changing one variable at a time so that we can be more scientific.

And so we do our best to do that. But sometimes we have to address other things at the same time. I usually start almost always I start with binders before we get to treat The infections because the binders oftentimes are going to be getting heavy metals, chemicals and molds. And like I said, if you want to get rid of infections, you have to make sure that you're getting the heavy metals, chemicals and molds because otherwise, the immune system is not functional. And you have to have a somewhat functional immune system in order to help you get rid of the infections been part of the problem with a lot of Lyme Doc's is that they're going directly at the infection, they hit it hard with antibiotics or anti microbials, or whatever they're using. And then they then they take them back, and then the symptoms come back because the infection comes back because they haven't dealt with the reason why the immune system is not there to help them out. But it has to be this combination of immune system plus anti microbials in order to bring those bugs back into balance so that when you are done treating, you're actually done.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 34:50

that triggers a couple extra questions here. So one going back to heavy metals. You mentioned that many of your tests you recommend provocation before so I assume that also equate to heavy metal testing. So for our listeners, can you briefly describe what your favorite type of heavy metal test is? Who you use for that.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 35:10

So I use doctors data. And I use a, I used to use a pre and post provoked and that's still, I think that's still more of the gold standard. But in the interest of time and finances and whatnot, I generally just use a post right now. And so I have people provoke with dmsa, which is what I believe to be the most broad spectrum dmps is better for mercury EDTA is better for lead. But you know, with me working virtually with people, it's better to have a capsule and so the dmsa is in a capsule form. People can order it, and then and they don't need a doctor's order to do it. And that's kind of a that's kind of an aside. But, but then you use that in order to push the heavy metals out of the tissues and then you collect it in the urine for the next six hours.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:59

So Essentially what what you're saying is upon provocation, if we give the patient something that's supposed to provoke metals that are in hiding and storage to come out, if they're coming out in the urine, we know they are in the body, they are in storage, we need to be more aggressive with getting them out.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 36:14

Absolutely, yeah, there's no, there's no heavy metals in the dmsa. You know, like, if you're going to see heavy metals in your urine, it's coming from you know, and so, and this, they're all hiding inside the tissues. And so we have to pull them out, and then and then collect the urine.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 36:32

Another question. So, how do you which again, you just very can give me a very brief answer here. But you mentioned that many Lyme Doc's aggressively use antibiotics and they're, you know, rotating them or maybe posting them. What do you use for anti microbials? What have you found to be most effective at treating these infections that you find?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 36:50

Yeah, so there's a number of different products that I like most of the time. They're kind of combination products. I like products from beyond balance, that are specific for babies. bartonella epstein barr virus other viruses mycoplasma, and also from Byron white formulas. So those are kind of my favorite. And I you know, sometimes I'll start with them topically depending on how sensitive an individual is, you know, where they're rubbing it into their hands every night before they go to bed every couple days, you know, and then I work them up to, you know, 10 drops twice a day or something like that, depending on what their success is and what their how their symptom progression progresses.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 37:33

Are those mostly herbal men? Or Lycoming? Yeah,

Dr. Evan Hirsch 37:36

they're all they're all herbal combinations.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 37:39

Wonderful. So how do you know if you can help someone improve their fatigue and their longevity primarily by their symptom questionnaire, or how do you know if you can help your patient?

Dr. Evan Hirsch 37:49

That's a great question. So it's all about the causes. So if somebody comes to me and they've addressed all of the causes, and they've addressed them with the appropriate therapies, because it's really you know, in simplest form, it's you figure out what causes you have and then use the right treatments and then you get better. But if somebody still has fatigue, then they haven't found all the causes, or they haven't used the right treatments. And so that's how I know if I can get them better because they haven't addressed everything. But I've never met anyone who has addressed all of their causes, and still has fatigue.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 38:23

Good. Wonderful. Tell us the name of your book. Tell us a little bit about that and how viewers can connect with you.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 38:29

Yeah, so book is called fix your fatigue and it takes you through the four step process. It's on Amazon, I feel very blessed. It's been a best seller. And you can get it on Kindle, you can get it as a paperback. And then the updated version of that, and that gives a lot more hand holding is my course, because the book is a couple years old now at this point to three years old, and it still has great protocols and I dump a lot of great stuff in there. But if you want the latest and greatest it's in the course and the course takes you through my forest. That process. It's got videos associated with all the steps along the way, I have a 70 Plus page workbook, like I talked about that takes you through figuring out exactly what causes you have, and then exactly how to fix them. And then there's, if you need if you have questions, you ask them in the Facebook group, you also get bonus group live question and answer with me. And then I also have a health coach and a nervous system retraining coach with some of our higher end programs, if that's some things that people are interested in. It

Dr. Stephanie Gray 39:31

sounds very thorough and very helpful. So after you're after this episode does go live in the show notes. Of course, we'll have a link to his book into his course. But we'll probably send out an email to our list as well about about this course that you have sounds like extremely useful.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 39:48

I appreciate that. Yeah. My mission is to help a million people resolve their fatigue. And I realized when I had my brick and mortar that I wasn't going to do it with one on ones and so that's kind of why you know, cool. And group is really where I'm focusing my time and my energy so that I can mean I get so many people from Europe, they don't have the resources that they need. And so I actually just set up a lab in a supplement store in Europe. And you know, in order to be able to support those people, entrepreneur there,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 40:15

that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today and helping our audience hear many strategies on how they can hopefully fix their fatigue, but emphasizing how important it is to find the cause. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for being a guest on the show.

Dr. Evan Hirsch 40:34

Thanks so much for having me on.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 40:36

This episode really got me thinking and I hope it did you as well. episodes like this are why I launched this podcast to propose solutions you may never have heard of before. mold is common as our Lyme and co infections and if you aren't improving, find a provider who can comprehensively assess you for these and get you treated so that you can gain your life back. Be sure to check out my book, Your longevity To print and if you aren't much of a reader, you're in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book. Plus for a limited time Not only is the course 50% off, but you also get your first consult with me for free. Check this offer out at your longevity blueprint comm and click the course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. And leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics, guests for how you're applying what you've learned on the show to create your own longevity blueprint. A podcast is produced by the team at counterweight creative As always, thanks so much for listening and remember, wellness is

Dr. Evan Hirsch 41:43

waiting.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 41:52

The information provided in this podcast is educational. No information provided should be considered to be or used as a substitute for medical advice. Diagnosis To start treatment, always consult with your personal medical authority.