147: How a Healthy Microbiome Impacts Longevity, Part 2 with Kiran Krishnan

Kiran Krishnan 0:04

All these beneficial bacteria that were there before now at such low levels, that they actually are not really functional, but they're there. This is the dysbiosis that occurs at the antibiotics.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 0:17

Welcome to your longevity blueprint podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie Gray. My number one goal with this show is to help you discover your personalized plan to build your dream health and live a longer, happier, truly healthier life. You're about to hear again from Karen Krishnan who is the founder of microbiome labs. This is part two of a two part series. As always, I'd encourage you first go back and listen to part one where he provides in depth examples of why gut health translates into full body health, and he unpacks what spore based probiotics are, where they come from and shares about psycho biotics for mental health. In this week's episode, he will share a bit about SIBO. Also, what ghost or post biotics are, share how the finite enzyme works. Talk about immunoglobulins and even probiotics for dogs. Let's get started.

You just unpacked so much there. I have like five follow up questions. I'm not sure if I can remember them. But let me go back to you were talking about how animals many times are given antibiotics humans are also given antibiotics. So is there any sort of case for back to that 50 billion strain probiotic you mentioned? Do you feel like there is a case for maybe short course have a high burst of probiotics to kind of, I don't know, re inoculate the gut after heavy antibiotic use, and then to maybe go back to maintenance of like the megaspore.

Kiran Krishnan 1:40

So there's actually data on this. And in fact, there's two big published studies that show that those kinds of of high concentration probiotics actually negate the recovery of your microbiome.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 1:53

Wow. Yeah, I would not have expected you to say that. Which is probably

Kiran Krishnan 1:57

the opposite. Right. And but we've been what's interesting about it is one of the things we came out saying in 2013, when we when we first started talking about the microbiome, is that there is an issue with these high dose high concentration probiotics that just have lots of different strains in it competing with your natural flora, right, because if you take a lactobacillus acidophilus, for example, and you naturally have acidophilus in your gut, this acidophilus could very well compete for the binding sites with your natural acidophilus or negate it in some way. And we always talked about that. And the only way to know that it doesn't do that is to do studies on it. And then most of these products have no studies on them. We always got the question about what do we do to recover the gut from antibiotics? Do we take a broad spectrum and a probiotic? Our answer has always been no, I would hypothesize that it would actually negate the repair and insurance, those two big studies that came out in 2018. And I think 2019, that showed exactly that that after a course of antibiotics, if you took these kinds of high concentration, multi strain probiotics, it slowed down the recovery of your microbiome. In contrast, we did it and we published a study on the spores showing that when you took the spores, not only with the antibiotic, but right after the course antibiotic, it actually improved and accelerated the recovery. And here's why. Let me I think it's important to understand what's happening in the microbiome when you take antibiotics. So let's say you have all my each of my fingers are different microbes in the gut microbiome, right. And they're all kind of equal level right now, of course, a an antibiotic comes in, what happens when the antibiotic comes in within the first two and a half hours is all of them get knocked down by over 90%. All of the microbes equally, most microbes in the gut are going to be susceptible to the presence of antibiotics, right. So most of them get knocked down. What then starts to happen is they start to grow back at different rates. Now your microbiome after that, first course antibiotics starts to look like this. And then the second dose comes in, boom, everything gets knocked down again. But then things come back at a different rate. Now they start to look like this, and multiple doses of the antibiotics. Finally, you have all these microbes still, but they're completely different levels than when they first started. The one reason for that is a constant changing environment in the microbiome. But an example of that is a healthy microbiome, a healthy gut environment really tends to be more acidic. So your stomach we know is super acidic, and then the small intestine can be relatively acidic at the proximal side, near your stomach, and then typically is around five and a half to a pH of around six. And then as you get towards your large bowel, you start to see more neutralization of the acidity in the gut. Now, there are lots of good bacteria in your gut that produce lactic acid, and it's the lactic acid that acidifies the gut and maintain stability. Now one of the reasons why the acidity is important is because a lot of egregious microbes and fungus and in a mold, mostly fungus do can't grow at acidic environments, a lot of the pathogens don't grow well in acidic environments. So that acidity in part keeps control of many of the dysfunctional microbes that may overtake the system. So when you take a course antibiotics, all of these lactic acid producing bacteria get knocked down, that means there's no lactic acid being produced. So now the pH of the gut is a little bit higher. So as a better comeback, the ones that do better at a higher pH come back a little faster, each knock down, the base level goes up, the gut becomes less and less acidic. And so then the microbes that do better at the less acidic environment come back faster and faster and faster. So what happens when you're done with a course of antibiotics, all the microbes, for the most part that you had in the beginning are still there. They're now just completely different levels, all these beneficial bacteria that were there before now at such low levels, that they actually are not really functional, but they're they're dysfunctional bacteria that are low levels are now at high levels. And so this is the dysbiosis that occurs after antibiotics. It's not that you're wiping out and eliminating, and microbes have gone forever. Right. So that re nodulation idea doesn't actually work in that sense, what you actually need is something that come in and re adjust the levels of these microbes and the spores, does

Dr. Stephanie Gray 6:22

that see a kind of a sense what the problem is? And yeah,

Kiran Krishnan 6:25

exactly, it's so different than you garden, right? If you if you haven't tended your garden in a while, the weeds are going to start to grow, the environment is going to change plants that you're hoping to grow are getting suppressed by the weeds and so on. So it's really about going in and making an ecological change in that in that garden. Same thing in your gut, it's about going in and readjusting the environment. So the good guys come back and suppress prebiotics and spores, diet, all of those things will help do that.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 6:54

So is megaspore probiotic contra indicated in anyone like who should not take this product,

Kiran Krishnan 7:00

we haven't found anyone that should not take it the only people we say people who are on specific immunosuppressants because of organ transplants, if you recently had like an a kidney transplant or something like that, and you're on a regimen of immunosuppressants, you shouldn't be taking any supplements anyway, unless you're really working carefully with your doctor. So outside of that,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:22

so what about SIBO?

Kiran Krishnan 7:24

What about SIBO? Yeah, absolutely. So SIBO people need the spores, almost more than anyone else. So let's talk about why Probiotics have been contraindicated for SIBO people to begin with. So SIBO, really that when you look at from a microbiome perspective, the way you define SIBO is there's a Texas shift, number one, in the in the small intestine, you're supposed to have a predominance of gram positive bacteria, right? Those are the good functional bacteria in the small intestine. And they're not supposed to grow above a level of around 10 to the four Cfu per gram of stool in that area. So that's a level the number doesn't really matter, but it's about 10 to the four. So imagine you have gram positive bacteria at 10 to the four that's a healthy small intestine. Now for a variety of reasons. And I do a whole SIBO talk for a couple hours, but but a lot of it is about stomach acid compromise. So using PPIs, you know, or having overgrowth of H. Pylori that compromised the stomach acid, you have a lot of gram negative bacteria in your mouth and terror caucus and so on. That is a major source of SIBO bacteria is the mouth, the mouth is full of the exact bacteria that seem to dominate in the SIBO gut. And this becomes a daily source of this microbes because you're swallowing billions of those gram negative enteric bacteria into your gut. But what's happening is under normal, healthy conditions, all of these bacteria that is swallowing are getting killed in the stomach from the stomach acid. So they're not entering the small intestine in a viable state. So if stomach acid is compromised, because of h pylori, or because you're using antacid, so on drugs PPIs, then these organisms are getting past the stomach acid in a Bible state. And they're colonizing the small bowel and they're taking over the small bowel. So that's step one of why SIBO is being created. This is why there's something called PPI induced SIBO that is a definitive condition. This is why h pylori infection is also associated with SIBO. Now, the other thing that's associated with SIBO is liver dysfunction. There is and I'm trying to remember the numbers off the top my head but around 50% of people with SIBO also have compromised liver function. When you compare that to same age match individuals who don't have SIBO it's less than 14%. You have three times more likely to have liver dysfunction if you have SIBO. And you're three times more likely to have SIBO if you have liver dysfunction, so they go hand in hand. Now why is that? Well When your liver becomes compromised the firt, one of the first things that becomes compromised is the production of bile acids. The bile acid pool data liver produces that stored in your gallbladder and secreted, so your small intestine gets compromised. So the bile acid pool shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. So your volume of bile that you can produce and secrete during the consumption process reduces dramatically. Why does that have an impact on SIBO? Well, bile does a very, very important thing to keep the growth of bacteria very low in the small intestine.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 10:33

tell patients it regulates pathogenic load. Yes. Yes.

Kiran Krishnan 10:37

anti microbial by itself, Bile is an anti microbial on itself, and it through a single meal that you eat, you can actually recycle the same bile acid pool up to 15 times the bile gets released to the gallbladder into the small intestine, it moves to the small intestine, it gets reabsorbed at the end of the small intestine goes back to the liver, the liver picks up all the nutrients and toxins, and does what it needs to do with that cleans up the bile sends it back to the gallbladder for recycling again, and release in the in the small gut. So when you have food in that system, you are coding the system with bile. What that does is that means that it doesn't allow the microbes that live there to go, Hey, this food, we can go crazy and start fermenting things and producing gas and creating all of these byproducts, right? Because the bile is there suppressing the metabolic activity of the microbes when food is present. Now the other thing that bile does is at the very end of the small intestine, when it's getting reabsorbed, it triggers a receptor called a nuclear FX or receptor, that receptor causes the small bowel lining to release antimicrobial compounds in again, as a secondary protection to make sure that bacteria are not active when food is present. And that's a really, really important protection so that you don't get fermentation in your small bowel, which is essentially what's happening in SIBO. When you have bile acid compromised, not only do you have the lack of bile moving through and acting as an antimicrobial itself, you also have bio not activating the nuclear effects are receptor as much. So you don't have the antimicrobial protection that is supposed to be present during food. And during feeding. Now you've got these enteric bacteria that are moving in, and they have higher numbers in the gut. And on top of that, when food is present, they have the chance to metabolize and create bloating and gas and, you know, hydrogen and methane and everything else that they produce. And so SIBO is that this biotic it's a it's a liver function issue. It's a it's an oral health issue, because you've got too many enteric pathogens in your mouth. It's a stomach acid issue. And then finally SIBO causes significant leaky gut, the presence of gram negative bacteria in the small intestine that's now inflamed because of all the production of ammonia and all these other noxious gases that that lightning is not used to now it's it's leaky and it's inflamed. And because there's gram negative bacteria, they have something called lipo polysaccharide or an endotoxin. That endotoxin is leaking through the small intestinal lining. And what happens is it goes up the vagus nerve, and it launches itself in an area of the brainstem called the dorsal vagal complex. When LPS from your gut lining ends up in the dorsal vagal complex, what happens is the signals from the brain to the gut to move the bowels stop. Now your bowels are in stasis, which is another feature of SIBO your bowel. The movement of the bowel is so important to control bacterial growth for two reasons. One, because remember, food transmits out of the small intestines, within something like three hours, two and a half to four hours ish food is basically moved through the small intestine going to the large intestine, that timing is incredibly important and very biologically significant. The reason is because bacteria have something called a lag phase of growth. So if you take food, for example, and you set it out on your counter to that should be refrigerated or an overgrown microbes, right, it doesn't overgrow microbes immediately. It takes eight hours, 10 hours 12 hours to overgrow. The reason why it takes so long, even though that's a good environment for bacteria to grow is because all bacteria go through a lag phase where their metabolic activity is really, really slow until they all of a sudden hit a logarithmic phase and they go nuts. That lag phase is like seven eight hours. So if the food can transit out of that environment within two or three hours, the bacteria are never going to log phase growth. So transit time is really important. Now the LPS leaking through and creating this bowel stasis means that when you eat food, the food is staying in your small intestine for 810 12 hours. Your transit time is super slow. you're constipated. You're not even pooping it out and things aren't moving through. And then the other part of it is not only is it the peristaltic movement of the bowel that stops, the migrating motor complex signal stops, the my motor complex is a sweeping electrical signal that basically cleans out the small bowel. And you don't get that. And so you don't have the cleaning effect to make it a food free environment for most of the day. And so those are all the things that compound together to create the condition of SIBO. And it starts with a you know, dysfunction in the in the oral microbiome, in the stomach, in the liver, and so on. So, one of the key things to stopping SIBO is resealing the lining of the small intestine, because if it's leaky, you're gonna continue to have stasis, you also need something to go in there and fight some of these gram negative bacteria. Because they're the dysbiotic organisms in the gut, the spores do both of those things, they seal up the lining of the gut, they stopped the leakiness of the gut, they can start to trigger bowel movement, they can compete against gram negative bacteria and bring their levels down. And then they also protect the liver. We've published two studies now showing spores have the ability to protect the liver. And people who have SIBO have extreme amounts of toxicity on the liver, because not only do they likely have SIBO, because the liver was already being compromised for whatever reason, the endotoxins, that leak through 85% of the endotoxin that leaks through goes first to the liver. And then the liver has to deal with all of that endotoxemia, which then leads to non alcoholic fatty liver disease, right non alcoholic steatohepatitis, and so on. And that progresses along that line, which means that bile acids become more and more compromised. So the liver support is so important. And we've been able to show and publish clinical trials that the spores protect the liver. So that's another reason. So

Dr. Stephanie Gray 16:56

now you have me thinking, you know, my patients who have had their gallbladder removed, obviously, we're supporting what I am supporting their microbiome and giving them ox bile if they need it. But now I'm thinking oh, my gosh, these individuals are at a greater risk of SIBO. I mean, you just kind of made me realize that which is totally the case. What about patients who you're saying patients will SIBO should tolerate this? And you're you made a strong case for why they need these sports for various reasons. But what if they have an adverse reaction? Because I will say I am one of those individuals, who's had SIBO, who didn't tolerate probiotics. Hi, in the past, I need to try this again. But in the past, I didn't tolerate it. I will say my symptom that I always get attack or cardio that has just been my symptom. And I'm presuming it's endotoxemia. Because these are, you know, killing off the gram negative, like you were mentioning bacteria. And that's kind of had been my response, which what has really helped me are serum derived immunoglobulins, which is why I really want to get to that piece also, right? Because you kind of alluded to that earlier that we also need to bind pathogens and toxins in right and not let them leak through our gut lining. So I know I'm asking a lot here. But first, let me go back to if someone's not tolerating a spore based probiotics. Why do you think what what's happening is my presumption, correct?

Kiran Krishnan 18:02

It is, yeah, it's a classic Herxheimer reaction, it's a detox reaction, or our naturopaths will call it a healing crisis, right where these bad bacteria are being killed off, which means they believe the toxins and larger loads, and your body will go through different responses to that. But it's actually the perfect segue for one of our solutions for that is it doesn't mean you can't do this. For us, it means two things to me, it means you have to go much slower. And then we're too you need something to negate that Herxheimer reaction, which you know, globulins are the perfect thing for that this bovine serum immunoglobulins are like a magical thing. It's one of the few things that I take like religiously, every day, especially when I travel and all that too. It is such a it's such a gift to us, because think about it this way. And it's largely IgG. But there's some IgM antibodies as well and IgA, but it's largely IgG IgG are those big, awesome neutralizing antibodies, right that are very specific to certain things. And imagine these cows are out there in the pasture and encountering all kinds of stuff. environmental toxins, viruses, microbes, pathogens, all that stuff. And their immune systems are building antibodies against all of these things and absolutely neutralize these things, including environmental toxins, which is a very important part of it. And so then we get to pull out the serum from the cows and concentrate the immunoglobulins and utilize them what basically what we're doing is we're sending in these little amazing drones that have specificity for all kinds of toxigenic things including mold, toxin, viruses, bacteria, environmental toxins, all of these things that they then neutralize all of these things including LPs, they bind that to in the lining of the gut, dramatically bringing down the pathogenic and immunogenic load in the gut and that allows for a respite in In the inflammation and toxicity in the lining of the gut, which then allows the gut to heal. This immunoglobulin by itself has studies on HIV enteropathy. For example, HIV enteropathy is a very severe form of leakiness of the gut in HIV patients. In fact, the NIH published a study showing that HIV enteropathy was a better predictor of mortality in HIV patients than viral load itself. Because the leakiness in the gut that they experienced, drives all kinds of other risk factors, right, including chronic low grade inflammation, and so on. And so and then there's also studies on a pediatric ulcerative colitis patients where they're showing the ability to modulate the lining of the gut, even under that kind of condition, that the question becomes, well, how do they actually, they know repair the damage that's occurring in the lining of the gut, they repair it by allowing repair to occur. So the analogy I give people is like, if you get a cut on your hand, it's gonna perfectly heal unless every single day you rub it and irritated. Imagine you wake up every morning and you rub and scratch it that cut, it's never going to heal. Inflammation and toxicity that we experience every single day from things coming in are endotoxins is the same as rubbing your cut. So if your gut is leaky and damage, and the lining and the mucosa are all damage, if there's constant inflammation in the area, it never repairs. And that's the same thing that would happen on your hand. So what the immunoglobulins do is a give some respite, they reduce the toxigenic load, they reduce the inflammatory response so that your system can actually repair. That's why they work so well with the spores, because the spores induce repair, but and the immunoglobulins negate the inflammation and toxicity, so the repair can actually happen.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 21:49

And just for the listeners, how they do that is their binding all of these bad things that you've mentioned, making them so large, they can't get reabsorbed into the bloodstream. So you put them out, essentially, lessening that burden on the immune system. But just so the listeners can put that together, basically, you take these bind mounts, you take those, these immunoglobulins, they bind to those bad things, and then you put them out, just have a simple time because you're so smart and just

Kiran Krishnan 22:10

know. Yeah, that's a great way to put it that I do want to distinguish it from other binders, right? Because they're

Dr. Stephanie Gray 22:16

not an environmental binder. Yes,

Kiran Krishnan 22:19

exactly. Which which bind like a bunch of stuff and take it out. These are so specific to specific things, right, a single immunoglobulin that specific to an alpha toxin, and mold will only bind to that alpha toxin A mole, but it's so specific to it, that it will bind to it in such a strong way that it will never let it go. And that's the beauty of this, these immunoglobulins is they're so specific and so powerful in their capability, but they also don't bind good stuff, which is great, right? Because you don't want them binding nutrients and all your good bacteria so

Dr. Stephanie Gray 22:49

on. Totally I know that serum derived immunoglobulins have really helped me I so I think that is what's happening. Personally with me. I do want to go back to you had mentioned again, like like vets have done a lot of research, I had no idea that maybe they were ahead of us. But they've done more research on impacting their animals microbiome, right for their animals, longevity, whatnot, I want to just bring in really quickly, something that I think has helped my animal is that you also have a probiotic for animals. Actually, that's not this, this is pod mate, which I want to get to too. But phyto Spore, you have phyto Spore, can you briefly just mentioned kind of what organisms are in that I had heard that a holistic vet who I interviewed on this podcast, once told me that it actually had, I'm gonna probably murder this, but some of that gets similar makeup to some organisms that are found in grass, because sometimes animals are like, my dog will go and eat grass sometimes. And so she's obviously her body's trying to get something. So is that correct? Or can you expand on that and the strength of that sort of product that you carry for animals?

Kiran Krishnan 23:46

Yeah, it was, it was our belief that our animals so when you look at our animals, and my, my dog just passed away a couple of weeks ago, my 13 year old, right, everyone was heartbroken about it. The poor thing had like two different types of cancers. And, and then when you think about that, and you go, how often this cancer and hip dysplasia and diabetes, and all that occur in the natural animal kingdom, right? It doesn't doesn't at all. And then there's some evidence that it doesn't it doesn't they've looked at this thing, but And yet, our dogs, our pets, our cats suffer from our same kind of diseases. And my hypothesis was that it's probably because they live in our environment, which causes leaky gut. And so I started looking for information on leaky gut in canines or in a felines, and it didn't really find much. And so we set out to prove that our pets suffered from leaky gut, and that the leaky gut for them was equally impactful to their overall health as it was for us, right they had endotoxemia. And so that's what we discovered that sure enough, they have endotoxemia they have LPs, it does create succinct significant inflammation and lead to lots of other conditions. And so for us, we're like, okay, if spores can Help Us, maybe they can help them as well. But we probably need something else in addition to that, so we have to have our spores that are known to also exist in animals. So bacillus subtilis and bacillus coagulants. And then the third organism that we picked is something called pedia caucus acid. Lactic chi pedia caucus is the organism that's found in grasses, right. And there's actually two very natural environments for PD caucus. It's found in grasses or shrubs and things like that. You find it in environments, and they've and humans have also been using them for fermenting sausages for 1000s of years. And that also was developed from exposing sausages to the environment, right, this organism ends up on the sausage because you're carrying it in your, your sack, so whatever. And then they ferment the sausage in such a way that it creates a new flavor. And so we've been using for the last couple 1000 years, PD a caucus, even till this day in commercial sausage production as a way of fermenting sausages for improved flavor at a caucus. Right. And that's probably the reason why dogs go and they lick the ground that they eat grass, when they're not feeling well, they're trying to get this organism and this organism is a powerful immune modulator in dogs and cats, it dramatically reduces the inflammatory response and the allergic response in dogs. That's why it helps a lot with atopic dermatitis,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 26:20

and my dog was licking her paws. That's why I mean, I changed her food, the first thing I did was changed her food, and she's actually eating raw dog food. I don't know how you feel about that, but she's your dog. And also put her on the fight of spore and some also supplements to mitigate histamine and whatnot. But yes, that was literally one of the reasons I sought out that probiotic which we didn't previously have on the shelf. And we do now here at the integrative health and hormone clinic.

Kiran Krishnan 26:41

Yeah, and that's a number one health condition among dogs and to some degree cats as well, but dogs, for sure, is atopic dermatitis, you know, they have allergies, and atopic dermatitis. And that's all because their microbiomes are ruined. And so the PDA is plays an important role. And there's some good studies on that. So then when we mix, the combination of PDA caucus, and bacillus because that's, they would encounter in the outside environment, we were able to prove and published a study showing that not only that dogs have leaky gut, but then we can also resolve the leaky gut in as little as seven to eight days by using this combination of bacteria. And that's where the phyto support came.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 27:18

Very cool. I will wrap this up, I could talk to you for hours, I do want to go back to just I already shared a little bit of my story, I have history of SIBO. whatnot, I will say, and for the most part, my symptoms have greatly improved. And I've done a lot of gut work. But I will say one product that changed my life, it's just the amount of foods that I can consume is fine, mate, I can literally go eat brussel sprouts, and they're just foods that I had to be so cautious with before kind of just knowing my limit. So can you also talk about this is not a probiotic, this isn't miso, we're off the spore topic. Now this is different. But this is an enzyme, can you kind of expand on what this is for the ingredients as well. And it's literally changed my life.

Kiran Krishnan 27:56

Yeah, it's a phenomenal product. And to me, I was quite surprised when it didn't exist already. When we got into this world of gut health, and I started looking at the practices that we do and the therapeutic gaps that exist in people's conditions. One of the things that really made me nervous was this idea of a low FODMAP diet. And a lot of people have to do it, unfortunately, because the the resulting symptoms of consuming FODMAPs are really debilitating in many cases, right? It goes all the way from just an annoyance of having Bloating and Discomfort all the way to being debilitating for some people. So understandably, people then just avoid them. The problem with avoiding them is FODMAPs tend to be food categories that lots of your good beneficial bacteria are like in your large bowel, but because of your dysbiosis and dysfunction, you're getting them fermented in your small bowel, at least some components of the FODMAP. So what we said as well, there's enzymes that exist, that actually break down those components that would normally be fermented in the small bowel and allow them to move down to the large bowel without being fermented in the small bowel. That gives you both the opportunity to tolerate the food, but then still utilize the benefits of the root components of the food in you know, and so to us, it's a healthy microbiome is all about bringing back resilience and foods into your system, right? If you feel okay, by eating just seven things, that's not a good condition to be in, you need to have some degree of resilience and be able to figure out a way to introduce things back into the system. And that's where the five main enzyme came from. So we looked at some of the key enzymes that are required to break down the carbohydrate structures in FODMAP foods. They don't produce gas in the in the small bowel, and we put those enzymes in and unfortunately, there were already studies on these enzymes. And the way we did it, we partnered with a naturopathic doctor on this who does a lot of work with SIBO. we formulated the product sheet took the first 50 bottles or so tried it with a bunch of patients. And they all came back. And just like you were saying, they were like, wow, this is a game changer for me. Things I could I couldn't touch for years now. And that is so much joy to us. And we're like, Okay, we got to get this out.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 30:13

Oh, it's like, amazing every time it goes on backorder my husband, who's our office manager, he's like, Don't worry, I said a bottle aside for you, because I can't, I can't run out at this top. So for the listeners who have had SIBO, or who have had fructose intolerance, right, those who haven't been able to tolerate the high gas producing foods, the FODMAPs he was alluding to this enzyme when taken with meals. It is just it is amazing. It's it's awesome. So thank you for that. Yeah. I think we've covered most everything that I wanted to today. You're just a wealth of knowledge. I'm sure you've heard that a million times. But is there anything else you want to share that we didn't go over? I mean, we've covered so much. Is there anything we're missing that you feel like you want to share?

Kiran Krishnan 30:52

Yeah, I do. Just want to mention we mentioned H. Pylori, and I do want to emphasize that h pylori to me is probably now one of the biggest dysbiotic drivers in our gut microbiomes and it starts at a very early age. Most people you know, over 50% of adults have infectious levels of H. Pylori, and most of us got exposed at an early age seven, eight years old, and since that time h pylori has been driving dysbiosis in the gut, and in fact now it's tied to lots of different conditions like autoimmunity, infertility, reflux disease, of course right gastritis gastroparesis, that's the you know, the the lack of emptying of the stomach right that feeling really hard fullness in the in the stomach when you want to eat, and then the the bloating and the distension in the stomach after you eat so that that inflammation, all of these very common digestive symptoms are all driven by this pathogen, including very serious things like gastro esophageal cancers, and gastric cancers, even things that are as seemingly unrelated, like autoimmune disease and infertility. And so for us, h pylori is a big issue that has to be tackled. And in the allopathic world, they have something called triple therapy. Now quadruple therapy, which is two antibiotics are three broad spectrum antibiotics and a ppi, which is probably the worst atom bomb for your gut and your microbiome.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 32:16

That's a good analogy. I've never heard of that as the atomic bomb for your gut. But that's good.

Kiran Krishnan 32:19

All right, we're reducing stomach acid. And we're destroying the microbiome, the microbes all at once with three broad spectrum antibiotics and a port on pump inhibitor. And so for us, we're like there's a better way to do this. And so we found a micro, this is a natural micro, we haven't done anything to the micro. And this is where the ghost probiotic or the post biotic comes in. Because this micro it's a lactobacillus root, right, that has a significant affinity on its cell membrane structure for Helicobacter pylori. It actually all it does, and this is the only thing we've been we've been able to see that it does is it binds H. Pylori, it cold aggregates with it, and it strips it out of the body and takes it out through defecation. And it's not even alive. This is where so you'll hear terms like ghost probiotic, or or post biotic, which describe microbes that don't have to be alive to elicit certain functions. So this microbe is intact but not alive. You take it you basically open the capsule, you mix it in water, and the reason you do that is we want to coat the stomach nicely with the with the back bacteria. So you drink it, it coats the stomach, it grabs Helicobacter pylori, and takes it out. We have 10 published studies on this on this particular organism and this editability reduce helical back to pylori, that I think for you as well and patients will start to feel a difference almost immediately, because you don't realize how impactful helical back to pylori is in the symptoms you experience every single day with the bloating, the distension the lack of bowel movement now that you'll start to feel it from the very first day,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 33:59

did you say that's lactobacillus rhamnosus? River I always senator, I've always associated that with women's health.

Kiran Krishnan 34:07

That's the beauty of probiotics, right? One or two genes different and it has a completely

Dr. Stephanie Gray 34:12

different reality. So this is like a saint. How am I saying that same strain, similar strain but different gene that has slightly different

Kiran Krishnan 34:20

it's same species species, different subspecies, right, got it. So a microbe so you can have a lactobacillus which is a genus, and then root array, which is a species. And then you can have sub species of root arise that all function differently, but they're all still rooted, right? Because they share about 80% of the same conserved genome. Right? So there's certain sections of a microbial genome. They're called these hypervariable regions, that if they have all of those regions, and they're in the same group, but within the same group, they can have completely different functions, like E. coli, for example. And you can have E coli OH one 5787, whichever you get exposed to will make you sick as a dog and maybe hospitalized, or you have up to 100 Different Ecoli that naturally live in your gut that never do anything that that's the difference is only one or two genes. So this is a router, right? That is specialized at binding Helicobacter pylori, that's all it does. And then it takes it out of the body. What's that product

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:20

called?

Kiran Krishnan 35:21

We don't have that sort of high low guard. Yeah, I actually have a bottle here because I just ordered a bunch of regularly as well.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:30

But if you took that and the megaspore, those aren't negating each other's function, like you're saying some other probiotic. Okay?

Kiran Krishnan 35:37

Not at all. Yeah, this one, you can take you take once a day, or in some some severe cases, twice a day, and you just mix it in water, I take it on an empty stomach, that's the best way to take it. For me. It's one of the first things I do in the morning, my take that with a couple of supplements I take in my on my empty stomach.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:54

Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure listeners are gonna want to more want to hear more from you. So where can listeners find you?

Kiran Krishnan 36:01

Yeah, well, absolutely. They you know, reach out to me on on Instagram. My handle is Karen biomes. Okay, I ra n bi o me. I post a lot of my interviews and talks and all that on this. So you can you can access them that way. If you look on YouTube, and you put my name, just Kieran Krishnan, you'll find tons of interviews and all that have been uploaded kindly by other people, and then certainly come to our website, microbiome labs, we have resources there as well. And there's a there's a new site that we're building that's actually built out that's a incredible resource for microbiome information. And it's called Better biome. Better. biome is a site that we've created. It's just it's got different microbiome, clinical experts, they put articles and videos and all that and many, many different topics on the microbiome. There's no products on there, anything like that. It's all about just resources and information. So you can go on better biome and search for resources as well.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 36:58

Awesome. Thank you. We'll post links to those in the show notes. And then last question, finally, we're here. What is your top longevity tip.

Kiran Krishnan 37:06

So my top longevity tip is building resilience. I don't want to be healthy by having to make 100% the right decisions. I want an 8020 rule. I want to make 20% Bad decisions that are fun, and still be perfectly fine, right? That to me is quality of life. And the way you build resilience is by building a very resilient, healthy gut. Because your gut is what allows you to have, you know, exposures to things that aren't really great for you, but still deal with them. Your gut, you know, facilitates the vast majority of detox pathways, right, your gun facilitates repair of your cells. We talked about your listings earlier, right. So if something damages your mitochondria, you've got to produce your linens or fix it right away. You've got induces autophagy, or, which is a way of cleaning up broken DNA and damaged cells and all that so you can recover better, you've got protects your livery gut protects your pancreas, your gut protects your gallbladder. So it protects your brain. So it is the central command center for the functionality of your body. And if you have a resilient gut, you have a resilient system. And that allows you to live a really thriving, healthy life without having to make 100% the right decisions.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 38:21

I love saying Mike drop. Yeah, so so good. So good. Thank you so much for coming on today. And just sharing what wonderful things your company's doing and for your dedication to the study of our micro organisms in the gut and you are brilliant again, I could listen to you for hours. This was excellent. So thank you so much. It was my

Kiran Krishnan 38:36

pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 38:42

Wow, wow. Wow, he is so smart. I don't think I've ever interviewed anyone who knows so much about our gut health as he does. I've learned so much about spores and why they seem to be the most important type of probiotics we should be taking. I also had no idea various subspecies have different functions either. I've already started taking megaspore with my immunoglobulins NS and biome since this interview and it has totally calmed me down I love it. Now remember, we carry all the microbiome lab products he mentions in these episodes, so stop into the integrative health and hormone clinic to check them out and follow Qur'an biome on Instagram. Be sure to check out my book your longevity blueprint. And if you aren't much of a reader, you're in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book plus for a limited time the course is 50% off, check this offer out at your longevity blueprint.com and click the Course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. Leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I do read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics guests and for how you're applying what you've learned on the show to create your own longevity blueprint. This podcast is produced by Team podcast. Thank you so much for listening and remember, wellness is waiting

The information provided in this podcast is educational no information provided should be considered to be or used as a substitute for medical advice diagnosis or treatment always consult with your personal medical authority