66. Postpartum Health Awareness with Shannon Wilson

Shannon Wilson 0:02

There's a phenomenon called the baby blues. People commonly associate the baby blues as postpartum depression. That's actually not the case.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 0:12

Welcome to the your longevity blueprint podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie gray. My number one goal with the show is to help you discover your personalized plan to build your dream health and live a longer, happier, truly healthier life. You're about to hear from Shannon Wilson who is a counselor who specializes in helping women specifically with anxiety and depression postpartum. Today we're going to discuss self care, stress management and all things mental health and wellness. Let's get started.

Thanks for joining me for another episode of The your longevity blueprint podcast today I have a local guest who is not only from Iowa. She's from Hiawatha, whose offices literally down the road from mine and her name is Shannon Wilson. She is licensed by the state of Iowa as a mental health counselor and holds certifications in perinatal mental health. She has a bachelor's degree in social work and earned her master's degree in counseling rehabilitation and student development in 2010. From the University of Iowa, she has extensive experience treating adults both individuals and couples. She has a special interest in expertise in reproductive and maternal mental health, and enjoys working with pregnant women and mothers who may be experiencing difficulties with role challenges and identity shift as a result of pregnancy and motherhood.

As well as mothers who are experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety she added remains committed to ongoing learning and professional growth and has continued her education with a variety of trainings including the 12 hour postgraduate postpartum depression training at the postpartum stress center, as well as the completion of the postpartum support international maternal mental health certificate training. She is the first person in the state to become certified in perinatal mental health. Shannon also completed cognitive behavior therapy and anxiety related disorders training at the Beck Institute for cognitive behavior training and therapy in Pennsylvania. She and his other professional interests include but are not limited to the treatment of anxiety disorder, self esteem, women's issues, codependency and couple's issues.

She's a former adjunct instructor at the University of Iowa, and she helped to found and formerly chaired the Iowa chapter of postpartum support International. She is available for public speaking about a variety of mental health issues. She is currently a member of the American mental health counselors Association, Iowa mental health counselors Association, postpartum support international and postpartum support international Iowa chapter. So welcome, Shannon to the show, tell us your story and why you became trained as a therapist.

Shannon Wilson 2:36

So I initially went to school for social work. And I was working in the field in the community locally here with older adults, actually, for a couple years. And I just started to recognize how much of a need there was for people just to have more coping skills, more resources. And so I was so limited with my social work degree at that time that I decided to go back to school for counseling. I worked in substance abuse for a little while post grad. And I accidentally stumbled upon working with a client who had postpartum depression in that setting. And it was just kind of a fall in love moment, I guess. I was also I just started my own motherhood journey at that point in time. And so it was really it felt relevant in my own life. And I knew I wanted to kind of pursue more training and education in that area.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 3:34

Wonderful. So what is perinatal mental health? Why is that important?

Shannon Wilson 3:37

perinatal mental health is something that I think a lot of people don't really know about or don't really understand the need for additional training and expertise in it encompasses perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. Most commonly people associate postpartum depression with perinatal mental health, but there's also postpartum anxiety, postpartum traumatic stress, bipolar disorder, there's so many other things that kind of fall under that umbrella. And also, under there as well are women who are dealing with fertility struggles, women who are going through pregnancy loss, infant loss, and also women who have had traumatic birth experiences. I work specifically with women in any of those categories. Yeah, that's

Dr. Stephanie Gray 4:29

great. I didn't even think about that. I had a long infertility journey myself, and I know women who have had very traumatic birth, I actually had one as well. So that can be a very important group for you to to help as well.

Shannon Wilson 4:40

traumatic birth is one of the risk factors for dealing with postpartum mood or anxiety disorder. And so being able to process that experience and work through it and heal from it is super important.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 4:53

That makes total sense and actually I'll get ahead of our conversation here for a moment. I think the stress Sub childbirth alone is hard on the body, right. And if you extend that for several days, and then you have, you know, postpartum complications or hemorrhage or infections or whatnot, that's a feat on the body as well, which can lead to things like nutritional deficiencies, which can then further worsen the mental health condition. And we'll get into a little bit of that in the future. But it just makes sense why these women need more support, they absolutely do. So what is typical to expect in the postpartum time, typically,

Shannon Wilson 5:28

you know, you have your baby and the first like four days postpartum, two to three weeks postpartum, there's a phenomenon called the baby blues. And people commonly associate the baby blues as postpartum depression. That's actually not the case. So baby blues are a normal hormonal phenomenon, that research shows about 80% of women experience, and that is just that hormonal dump that happens after birth. And so I kind of describe this as the time period where you know, you're sitting and you're looking at your baby, and you're thinking, Oh, my goodness, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, and you're crying tears of joy, and you're so grateful and thankful. And then, you know, 20 minutes later, you are looking at your baby, and you're thinking, Oh, my goodness, so much responsibility, I can't believe what I just did. This is crazy.

I can't go back now. And you're crying tears of grief. It's kind of that period where you're going through those really rapid hormonal shifts, and your emotions are following suit. And they're kind of all over the place. That is normal, up to about three weeks postpartum. A lot of women aren't told that they're not provided that information. So you're dealing with, you know, having a baby, sleep deprivation, hormonal shifts, childbirth, lactation hormones, if you if you choose to breastfeed, and all of those things. And so your body and your brain are going through a lot. also commonly in the postpartum, probably here, there's a lot of stress, a lot of strain on relationships. So about 70% of couples report marital dissatisfaction in the first year postpartum. And so for me, if the number is that high, yeah, that's common, that's normal. But we are really given that information. And so then when we start to feel disconnected from our partners, then we're worried about that. And we think there's something wrong with us or something wrong with our relationship, when in fact, that's just kind of a normal part of adjusting to adding a family member.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:33

So what's the difference between these baby blues and actual postpartum depression,

Shannon Wilson 7:38

typically, depression is going to be more stable and enduring. So you're feeling bad most of the time, right? Whereas baby blues, the shifts are kind of up and down. So you are really dealing with more of that, like, up and down. with depression, it's just kind of down most of the time.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 8:01

Do you see a lot of postpartum anxiety also,

Shannon Wilson 8:03

I see a ton of postpartum anxiety, it's probably the bulk of my practice. I see women who experience anxiety and also women who experience OCD in the postpartum timeframe. And for a lot of women, the experience of OCD is a first time occurrence for them in the perinatal timeframe. And so it can be a really scary experience. I also see a lot of postpartum rage is another little known thing that occurs for women. And I've been seeing more of that in my practice as well.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 8:36

Sure. Let's go back to the what you just mentioned. So tell me about postpartum OCD. So what symptoms would a woman be experiencing that could alert her that she is having some OCD tendencies?

Shannon Wilson 8:48

Yeah, so postpartum OCD is kind of characterized by intrusive thoughts. In our field, they're commonly called scary thoughts. So a lot of times, women will experience thoughts that are graphic in nature, about harm coming to themselves to their babies, sometimes it's focused on their partners. These can come in the form of thoughts, it can also come in the form of imagery, they can be really really graphic really violent, it can be the woman actually herself doing something to harm her baby, or it can just be harm coming to her baby. As you might imagine, that can be a really scary experience. And what we know is that most women actually experienced thoughts like this. But for individuals who have postpartum anxiety or postpartum OCD, they actually really hold on to it, their distress level is really, really high.

And so then they might start engaging in behaviors in order to avoid it. So for example, if a woman is afraid or she's having images that she's throwing her baby down the stairs or over a railing right then she might start avoiding the stairs. Avoiding the railing. Commonly I'll hear about women having intrusive thoughts about knives. So then they'll start avoiding the use of knives or maybe putting the knives up into a cabinet where they can't reach them. To be really clear, these women are not dangerous, right? They're not at any risk of harming their baby. It's not to be confused with like a psychotic break. But it can cause a lot of distress for the mother. And then the behaviors that follow that can be even more impairing to her functioning.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 10:37

So if someone's having some of those thoughts, what do you recommend they do,

Shannon Wilson 10:41

I would say, try to talk about them. There are some really great resources, the postpartum stress center, they have a campaign going, where you actually can like, report what scary thoughts you're having, and they list all of them out, right. So you get to see that other people actually do experience those thoughts as well. When I work with my clients, what I always tell them is the content of the thought, and how graphic it is, does not concern me, that has no clinical value, to me, what I'm most concerned about is their level of distress associated with it. Because if they are really distressed, that's an indication that they're not going to follow through on anything, right. And also, it's an indication that they can kind of just let it if they can work to reduce the distress associated with it, they'll have more success, just letting it go. Right. And the more that they let it go, the less their brain is actually going to send that thought to them, because they're not getting so involved

Dr. Stephanie Gray 11:44

in that thought. So what can women do to prepare for the for the postpartum timeframe, and also, just from an overall mental wellness standpoint, if they're wanting to have a baby, what can they do in preparation, and then we'll kind of talk about postpartum what they can do,

Shannon Wilson 12:01

one of the things that I think is really helpful is having a postpartum plan. I do this a lot of times with my clients who have had second babies or subsequent babies, and they didn't do this the first time around. But it's something that we do to prepare for things that maybe didn't go so well, the first time around, how can we perhaps mitigate some of that, also, I think just having really open conversations with your partner about things like sleep deprivation, and your mental health history, and the delegation of roles and responsibilities for Caregiving for your baby, and also your home, because we know women tend to traditionally pick up a little bit more. And so what I find then is that when baby comes, that makes it that much harder for them to function and to manage everything. And it leads to more conflict. And so how can you renegotiate what those household norms look like with your partner? And so having a lot of those conversations, not just focusing on your birth, or focusing on the baby, but what might that look like? afterward? How were you parented? How was your partner parented? What kind of baggage are you bringing into parenting, so that you're starting that conversation, before you actually have the baby?

Dr. Stephanie Gray 13:27

Marriage is a challenge. And then, you know, for some people getting pregnant as a challenge, birth alone. So I think a lot of women probably don't think about the postpartum plan, and really the preparation, but I can see how that would be extremely valuable. Now you have three children, right? Do Yeah. So it sounds like you were already a therapist before having children, but well, or you were in social work, but then you transition into therapy. So what other tools have you learned along the way that you've been able to use with your family,

Shannon Wilson 13:55

I am a control freak, for sure. I like to be doing the things and, you know, have my hands and all the pots when it comes to taking care of the kids. And as we've grown our family, it's been really important for me to let go, and to allow my husband to love our children as well and to parent our children as well. And I've gotten better at that, because I've had more practice, you know, with having more kids. And so that has been a really important thing for me personally, with having kids is being able to let go and rely on my partner to do what I know he's capable of. And he's such a loving and great father. Right. So that's probably the biggest thing I have learned personally.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 14:47

Letting go. It's important to know, oh, I don't say walks of life in all stages of life. Yeah. And just trusting trusting others. trusting him. Yeah, I have the same challenge with my husband. We're working on it. Yeah.

Shannon Wilson 15:00

It's hard. And we I think as women, too, we hold so many ideas and beliefs about how we should be doing everything. And so then when our partners do things, we might feel guilty about it. And so being able to mitigate that, and you know, one of the things I say to women all the time that I work with is, so you're telling me that you feel guilty, because your partner is parenting your child? Right? So that's what we're really talking about here is their parenting. And the expectation is, for most households, I would say, in our generation, that most people are parenting. And it's not just one person's responsibility. And so it's hard to step back. But when we do, then we give them the opportunity to become more confident and competent in their parenting as well.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 15:51

That's good. That's great. I want to talk about hormones a little bit. And then I want to talk about nutrients. So just for the listeners, and you can tell me if you agree here, but most women, not everyone, but most women tend to feel better. Maybe not first trimester of pregnancy if they're tired or sick or whatnot. But second and third trimester, right? progesterone and estrogen are the highest they've been through their entire life. And so most women, that's where they get the other skin looks good. They feel good. They get that glowing aspect. So most women tend to feel better when pregnant when hormone levels are high. And then what happens after you deliver a baby, right? Well, if you're breastfeeding, prolactin is going to be high oxytocin is going to be higher than the bonding hormone x, it doesn't have to breastfeed your kid to have higher oxytocin, you're going to get that surge just with, you know, delivering a baby. But generally speaking, while prolactin is high, if you are breastfeeding, that's going to keep you from cycling. For menstruating. It's going to keep estrogen and progesterone lower. So many women go from this all time high of their home or hormones to this all time, low, right? their hormones actually in a way crash, right.

And some women are extremely sensitive to those fluctuations, especially this this drastic, intentional fluctuation. And so I think a lot of women have symptoms because of this, this hormone shift that's created. And then eventually, when you're done breastfeeding, prolactin and oxytocin go down. And for some women, they feel great with higher prolactin and oxytocin. Other women, they don't enjoy breastfeeding, it's a chore they don't do well, it's just not a good fit. Everybody's different, right? But when they choose to stop, when prolactin and oxytocin go down, then many women will resume cycling, estrogen and progesterone go back up. But guess what, we have another shift here, right? So hormones are going up, and then down and then up, and then down again, as they resume cycling. So I see a lot of women feel like they are just an emotional roller coaster in a different way than they've been before two different extremes. I don't know if you agree on that.

Shannon Wilson 17:44

Yes, I completely agree on that. And when it comes to mental health, you know, some women will experience mental health disturbance for the first time during pregnancy or postpartum or some women who've had lifelong mental health stuff going on, they feel great during pregnancy. And that's one of the times where they're the most stable.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 18:06

That's a cue and to us that they'd likely mean to have higher hormone levels,

Shannon Wilson 18:09

right? Yeah, I think all of that is so important. And I think, you know, for talking about what can you do, while pregnant to kind of prepare for postpartum, I think, you know, aligning yourself with a practitioner who will do those types of testing, you know, I often refer on my very first visit with women, who will tell them rule these things out, right, because there could be a medical conditions contributing, there could be hormonal imbalances, there could be so many other things that are contributing, that are not easy fixes, necessarily, but they're going to help me help you better. And so I think back to that, that postpartum planning, it's so important to consider all of those factors. And I use a therapeutic approach, I use primarily cognitive behavioral therapy.

And so what that does is it kind of looks at the way that you're thinking and how our thoughts influence the way that we're feeling. depression can kind of distort the way that we think it makes all of our thoughts just a little bit more negative, we look through a certain lens. And so it's a process called cognitive restructuring, where we're able to really kind of go in and change the way a person is thinking and develop new neural pathways. And it's highly effective. And so typically, when I make referrals for medications, I don't prescribe that's outside of my scope. But when I make those referrals, I am making them because someone isn't necessarily responding well to treatment. So they're not able to really effectively engage in the therapy process. Sometimes when people are experiencing more like the biological symptoms of depression, so suicidal thoughts, sleep disturbance, appetite disturbance, you know, it's an indicator that those symptoms tend to respond well to medication and so that would be a situation as well that I would refer out for evaluation. Sure.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:02

So for most of your clients who come to you postpartum, they're feeling off, they're just not feeling right. You start therapy with them. Are you seeing them once a week? On average? What would you say?

Shannon Wilson 20:12

Typically, it's I like to start people every week or bi weekly, it depends on how early on symptoms severity, duration, that kind of thing. Some people come in, and they just need me to kind of normalize what they're going through need me to help them start allowing themselves to experience negative emotion, right, we don't like to feel bad. But sometimes we feel bad, and it's okay to feel bad. And so being able to just normalize that experience and help them get on a different path, that can be enough. But for individuals who are experiencing high degrees of distress or functional impairment, or high symptom severity, than they would come in more than likely once a week, how long?

Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:55

I know you probably can't answer this either. But it probably depends on if the patient's breastfeeding or not whatnot. But typically, when someone has postpartum depression, when can they expect that to improve like what's kind of an average length of struggle that you see with your clients,

Shannon Wilson 21:10

I would say, the earlier that there's intervention, the more we can do, and more than likely symptom like remission, what happens sooner what I always tell people, if you don't like the way that you feel, then just come in and be evaluated. I'm not really in the business of keeping people who don't need to be seeing me. And so if a person doesn't need to be seen, then I will let them know that and we'll talk about that. And we'll kind of make that decision together. If you are struggling, the sooner the better. Because what we know is with early intervention that can help you feel better faster. So definitely come in if you're struggling.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 21:54

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Shannon Wilson 25:05

I kind of look at stress management as what can I do on a daily basis to prevent stress? And what can I do in the moment when I'm acutely stressed. So on a daily basis, I talk about self care. And I think self care, that term gets floated around quite a bit. It's not just bathtubs, and bond bonds. It's a lot, it's so much more than that. It's doing things that maybe you don't like to do, but you know that it's really good for you, right. So I talk a lot with my clients about boundary setting in terms of managing your stress. So being able to say no, being able to assert yourself and communicate, when things are too much lowering expectations. So if there's a lot going on, like right now, our current environment, keep expectations low, don't put so much on your plate, because it's so important to have some downtime to restore. And just daily life right now is so depleting. We're suffering right now collectively, and so being able to just have some time to feel our feelings is important. I also talk about you know, exercise, as you know, is is really good and helpful sleep. I hate talking to moms of newborns about sleep, because we know that babies sleep, it's normal for them to be awake a lot, and feeding a lot and all of that, but also sleep deprivation, it makes a person everything worse. Yeah, everything worse, yeah, everything is harder.

So your anxiety is worse, your mood is lower, you're more irritable, you are unable to tolerate stress as well as you would. So making sure that you're sleeping, making sure that you're taking any supplements, medications, things like that, that you need to take. And then we also talk about those like acute skills and the moment. So being able to first of all identify that you're stressed. Because I think a lot of times people even have a hard time identifying that they're stressed. Usually the word that people dance around in my office is overwhelmed. And so overwhelmed, to me is an indication that you're stressed. There's too many things going on. And you need to kind of take a step back, and you need to intervene at that point. And so then what does that look like? And so for people, in the moment, you know, we will do some grounding exercises, sometimes we'll talk about just processing, talking about things, sharing how you're feeling with your partner, or a friend or you know, just somebody that you trust. And again, lowering expectations is a big part of that. So if there's a lot going on, and you're feeling really overwhelmed, don't necessarily think about cooking a five course dinner, or you know, things like that, what can you do to remove some of the things that are overwhelming you even if it's just in the short term?

Dr. Stephanie Gray 28:03

That's good. That's, that's great. Yeah. I like how you said self care isn't just like eating bonbons and taking an Epsom salt bath. Because yes, that's self care short, if you enjoy it, do the things that bring you joy. But sometimes self care is the harder things like you said, setting healthy boundaries and saying no, and not taking on 20 things when your plate has just already fallen, I need to get your roof replaced and whatever else everybody has going on right now. I this is such an interesting year for so many reasons. But our community is just everybody needs a new roof. So new fences, or new whatever, whatever. I mean, we just all got hit really hard. And I almost laughed. I don't mean to be insulting laughing about it. But it's just almost like I think this has given us all perspective and just a really different different ways just be appreciative that we're alive. And you know, what, we're survivors, we can live without power for a week with a, you know, small child that we're pregnant or whatnot. So I think extending grace to ourselves and celebrating the wins, you know, celebrating getting electricity or celebrating those things is really important, because I think we as mothers, I'd like to be in control, like you, you know, we'd like to not necessarily crack the whip but we are driven individuals, and sometimes we may be focused on the things that aren't getting done and not celebrating all the things that have I all the things we have to be grateful for. And I tell some of my patients who have those negative thoughts the minute they're getting a negative thought to try to flip the switch and say three things we are grateful for.

Because even with the Draco and having to close the practice, I'm sure you guys had to close for at least a week to I got to spend time at home with William that I I hadn't had because we were actually open through COVID so I didn't you know, get some of the time time off that other individuals had not not intentionally I just you know how how life worked for me and so I actually enjoyed spending time with William and reading books with flashlights and you know, just really focusing on the positives rather than the negatives. One negative comment will set us off. Right, someone says one negative thing and it's like the 20 positive compliment And someone gave you were gone. And we need to really flip the switch and put things back in perspective. And that's why we have friends and family and therapists like you to hold us accountable and keep us in shape. So I love your passion, what you've done for women, because I think that cohort has been neglected. And I think a lot of women don't realize they're having symptoms, so they don't know what to expect. So I love what you're doing. Do you have a top longevity tip you would want to share with our audience?

Shannon Wilson 30:25

What I would say would be stress management, right? Like managing stress, managing emotions, when we're not really processing and allowing ourselves to kind of feel things that go somewhere, right. And it makes us feel bad, it makes us stressed out. And so that would be my tip, make sure that you're focusing on how to manage your stress and allowing yourself to experience the full range of human emotion because all emotions are Okay,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 30:53

that's good. It's really good. So tell us about your practice, where you can be found and where listeners can find you on social media.

Shannon Wilson 31:00

Okay, so my practice is called the Marie Wilson and Rose counseling and behavioral services. We are MW, our counseling for short. And we are located in Hiawatha, Iowa. We opened in January of 2014. And it just started with my two business partners and myself. And then we've kind of grown and so now we have a multi specialty group summit. So my private practice is what we call ourselves. And so we have, we serve all ages, and all populations and our practice, we really value our work culture here we value providing really high quality mental health care, we're really picky about the clinicians that we bring on. And, you know, we want to make sure that their values are aligned with ours, we just really, really focus on each person as an individual and helping them from a more holistic perspective. My partners and I, we all graduated from the rehab counseling program at the University. And so that program is not just focused on mental health, it's kind of focused on all parts of an individual. And so we are well versed in, you know, working with people in the community to help our clients get the services, the resources, other professionals input opinions, recommendations as needed.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 32:22

And you I know, at one point, you had support groups do still have some support groups,

Shannon Wilson 32:26

we have some support groups, they're pretty limited right now because of COVID. So I actually run a postpartum support group, but I have that on hold right now. I'm setting good boundaries, and lowering expectations of myself and focusing on doing what I can do while also mothering through COVID, and Rachel and all of that so, but people can check our website, we're at WWW dot m wr counseling, calm. And we usually have updated information about our groups. They're also the practice has a Facebook page and an Instagram. And then I have a professional Facebook page and Instagram as well. So I don't flood the practices, social media with maternal mental health stuff, because I don't want people to think that's Oh, that when you do not,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 33:19

but you really do serve all walks of life all ages, which is great. So specifically, if you're planning trying to plan a pregnancy or pregnant or in the postpartum timeframe of your life and you're struggling with some thoughts you've never had before, I highly encourage that you reach out to Shannon, again, m wr counseling, calm. she'd love to chat with you. And I think she'd be a great help. So Shannon, thank you so much for coming on the show today. And being just a wonderful resource for our community.

Shannon Wilson 33:45

Thank you for the opportunity. I love being able to speak to perinatal mental health.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 33:53

That wraps up another episode. If you are experiencing postpartum symptoms, please connect with a therapist like Shannon and find a functional medicine practitioner like myself who can comprehensively assess and optimize your nutrient status, and your hormones. Be sure to check out my book your longevity blueprint, and if you aren't much of a reader, you're in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book plus for a limited time the course is 50% off. Check this offer out at your longevity blueprint calm and click the course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. Leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I do read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics guests and for how you're applying what you learn on the show to create your own longevity blueprint. The podcast is produced by the team at counterweight creative As always, thank you so much for listening and remember wellness is waiting

The information provided in this podcast is educational. No information provided should be considered to be or used as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always consult with your personal medical authority.

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