Betrayal is a form of trauma. Like any trauma, it impacts our health. But there are elements of betrayal that make it unique. I’m joined by Dr. Debi Silber to talk about what she learned about Post-Betrayal Syndrome from her own experiences and research.
Listen to the Episode
The five stages from betrayal to breakthrough are:
- Neglected emotions/intuition
- The emergence of survival instincts
- Adjusting to a new normal
- Healing, rebirth, and a new worldview
About Dr. Debi Silber
Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute. She is a holistic psychologist, health, mindset, and personal development expert, the author of the #1 bestselling book: The Unshakable Woman: 4 Steps to Rebuilding Your Body, Mind, and Life After a Life Crisis, and her newest book: Trust Again: Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence, and Happiness.
Her recent Ph.D. study on how we experience betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that change how long it takes to heal.
In addition to being on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, TEDx (twice), and more, she’s an award-winning speaker, coach, and author dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence and happiness they want most.
How Our Bodies and Minds Hold on to Betrayal
When faced with a betrayal, many people find themselves in one of three groups. There are those who try to avoid their feelings through numbing or distractions. Others deny the experience altogether. In the third group are people whose betrayer faces no consequences at all.
Debi explains how people in these groups often experience a further deterioration of relationships as well as illness. Physical, mental, and emotional issues are common elements of post-betrayal syndrome. Debi shares how this will go unresolved until we face the root cause head-on.
In her research, Debi has seen the impact of unresolved betrayal. Many people experience gut issues, energy deficits, and weight fluctuations. They may also experience overwhelm, anxiety, shock, and an inability to concentrate. When these combine, it’s no wonder that betrayal has long-lasting effects.
Moving Through the Stages of Betrayal
Through her extensive research, Debi identified the stages of betrayal and how people move beyond it. It often starts with neglected emotions and ignored intuition.
People then experience shock. When betrayal is discovered, our worldview is shattered, and mental, emotional, and physical health suffers as a result.
This is followed by the emergence of survival instincts. However, many get stuck in this stage and fail to heal fully.
They then adjust to a new normal and establish new boundaries. This is when we leave behind what wasn’t serving us and seek out new comforts.
Healing doesn’t really come until the final stage – developing a new worldview. This occurs when we move past surviving and construct new rules and viewpoints based on the entire experience.
Have you experienced a betrayal that still affects you? What new boundaries and worldview has emerged from it? Leave a comment below!
Call the Integrative Health and Hormone Clinic today and schedule your first appointment at 319-363-0033.
“Because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally. The entire self needs to be rebuilt. Rejection, abandonment, confidence, worthiness, belonging, trust – they’re shattered.” [8:28]
“We’ve been taught time heals all wounds. I have the proof that’s not true.”[9:47]
“I’m not saying that betrayal was our fault. What I’ve come to learn is it really is our opportunity.” [23:38]
“Transformation begins when you tell yourself the truth.” [34:42]
In This Episode
- What led Debi to research betrayal [1:40]
- What betrayal actually is and how it impacts our health [6:20]
- Moving beyond betrayal to begin healing [12:30]
- How to know if you have post-betrayal syndrome [22:00]
- How transformation can occur after a betrayal [25:50]
- Identifying if you are numbing rather than healing [33:20]
Links & Resources
Dr. Debi Silber 0:02
We've been taught Time heals all wounds. I have the proof that's not true. People write things like my betrayal happened 35 years ago, not willing to trust again.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 0:12
Welcome to the your longevity blueprint podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie gray. My number one goal with the show is to help you discover your personalized plan to build your dream health and live a longer, happier, truly healthier life. Today you get to hear from Dr. Debbie Silber, she's going to share how unhealed betrayal impacts your health work and relationships and how your biggest crisis reveals your greatest gift. Let's get started.
Thanks for joining me for another episode of The your longevity blueprint podcast today I have on as a guest Dr. Debbie Silber, She's the founder of the post betrayal transformation Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health mindset and personal development expert, and the author of the number one best selling book The unshakable woman four steps to rebuilding your body, mind and life after life crisis, and her newest book, trust again overcoming betrayal and regaining health, confidence and happiness. her recent PhD study on how we experienced betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that change how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on Fox, CBS, the dr. oz show TEDx twice and more.
She's an award winning speaker, coach and author dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as other blocks preventing them from health work, relationships, confidence and the happiness they want. Most. That's beautiful. So welcome to the show. Dr. Silver, thanks so much. Just call me Debbie. It's fine. So we have an interesting topic today, which is betrayal. I have had no other guests come on the show when you are obviously an expert at that. So I want to ask what your story is, and how you became interested in learning about it and becoming that expert?
Dr. Debi Silber 1:50
Yeah, well, you know, you don't just say, Oh, yeah, I want to be a betrayal expert. It's sort of like it, you have to because in my case, it was, it was a horrible family betrayal. And I thought I did everything I needed to do to move forward and heal from it. And then years later, it was my husband and anybody who's been through it, it's devastating. It just shatters everything, you know, to be real and true. So I love learning. And I thought, Okay, I'm gonna learn my way through this, because I was truly desperate to understand how the mind works and why we do these things. So I enrolled in a Ph. D. program in transpersonal, psychology, the psychology of transformation and human potential just to get myself through this.
And also because one thing I realized was, you know, and this is the beauty of betrayal, and we'll get to it, people are like beauty. Yes, it gives you that opportunity to be like, Okay, what isn't working here? What's similar to both of those examples, experiences, and what was similar was I was never in the equation. It was all about everybody else. I didn't have the right boundaries in place for kids, six dogs thriving business. Where was I nowhere anyway, so I was like, that's it. It's my turn. And I dove into this Ph. D. program, it was time to do a study. So I studied betrayal, what holds us back what helps us heal and what happens to us physically, mentally and emotionally. When the people closest to us, lie, cheat and deceive. And that study led to three discoveries which changed my business, my life, my family, everything.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 3:22
So you opened kind of your story of saying you did everything that you thought, right to kind of get through this betrayal? Can you take us through some of the things that you used to think maybe they still are important building blocks, right on that that healing journey? But What had you done that you thought were the right things, but obviously wasn't enough before you were enrolled in this program?
Dr. Debi Silber 3:41
Short? Well, I really, I thought I did every I thought I went through the forgiveness piece. And I thought I did with my family. And just finding and making sense and meaning out of the experience, I did that with my family. And there really wasn't anything to work with there. When it came to my husband, I immediately got him out of the house. And I said, Okay, well, that was the deal breaker. And let me just now here I am, you know, single mom, and let me just figure this out. And that was the absolute crash and burn of the relationship and the old me and I'll share so many things about what went on and all of that. But one of the biggest things I learned and what I teach in the PBT Institute is, you know, we know when it's safe in in your best interest to heal and rebuilt when it's in a safe and in your best interest to heal and move on. So like with my family, there was really nothing to work with there.
So I healed and moved on with my husband has two completely different people. We married each other again, and it was new rules, new boundaries, new everything. But that only happens when there's the death and destruction of the old in order to rebirth, the new and I needed to really go through that whole process. And it is a journey. And I was just trying everything that I was learning and I remember Seeing clients at the time. And they're like, well, how are you doing this? And I'm saying, I really don't know. But I'm just so desperate to move through this. And it's interesting too, because in the study, there were three groups who didn't heal. And I kept saying that, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna make sure I'm not doing any of those things. The three groups were one, they were avoiding numbing, distracting, and I get it, they did whatever they could to make the day a bit easier. But you know, it just kept their healing at bay, like some would go to the doctor, and who would put them on a mood stabilizer, anti anxiety med, or they they would binge eat, or they would numb in front of the TV, drink a few glasses of wine, whatever it was, I noticed it wasn't working.
The second group refused to accept their experience. They were like, they just weren't going there, huh? Nope. And the third group was the group where the betrayer had very little or no consequences. And here's the thing with that group, I saw two things, a further deterioration of the relationship. And by far, hands down, hands down, that group was the most physically sick. Hmm, yeah. So seeing that, you know, just show up, I was learning so much about what to do, what not to do. When these discoveries showed up. It just it was a game changer.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 6:17
So good. I want to get into all that. But I feel like we need to backup and define betrayal. What is betrayal? Why does it hurt? Why does it or how does it impact us? And what does it create?
Dr. Debi Silber 6:28
Yeah, you know, I define it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule. And every relationship has that think about it, we had something I was supposed to show up. And we were going to have a conversation. And if I didn't, I would have been betraying you now wouldn't shattered you. But you know, but the way it works is, the more you trust and depend on someone, the deeper the betrayal. So for example, a child who is totally dependent on that parent, and then the parent does something awful, that's going to have a bigger impact than let's say your best friend sharing your secret, still a betrayal, but wouldn't have the same impact.
And it has so many faces. I mean, this could be a family member, a partner, a friend, a co worker, someone in a position of authority. And so often, self self betrayal is huge. So it hurts so much, because this was the person or these were the very people who gave us that sense of safety and security. So in that person who gave us that sense of safety and security is the person to shatter that sense of safety and security. It's traumatic. It's such a tattoos itself on our body and our heart.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:38
I was literally just gonna say I've interviewed some other guests who you know very well who talk a little bit about trauma and how that impacts our health. And I kind of preparing for this podcast today. I was kind of thinking, well, gosh, betrayal, essentially, is a trauma, right? It can act like a trauma to our health.
Dr. Debi Silber 7:52
Oh, absolutely. But it's a different type. And that was one of the discoveries because I was originally studying betrayal and post traumatic growth. And you know, sort of the upside of trauma how that trauma could potentially lead you with a new insight, awareness perspective that you didn't have beforehand. But I had been through death of a loved one and I had been through disease. And I was like, a trail feels very different for me. So I didn't want to assume and I asked my study participants, I said, if you've been through other traumas, besides betrayal, does it feel different? Every single participant said, Oh, my gosh, it's so different. And here's why. Because it feels so intentional. We take it so personally.
Right? So the entire self has to be rebuilt, rejection, abandonment, confidence, worthiness, belonging trust, they're shattered. So it didn't feel like it qualified as post traumatic growth. So if I were to give you an equation, it would be post traumatic growth, right? Like what you've learned what you've experienced who you are now, because of your experience, plus rebuilding the self equals post betrayal transformation.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 8:58
So that's Yeah,
Dr. Debi Silber 8:59
yeah, very different state. Because think about it. Like if you lose someone you love, like I lost my mom, I grieved, I'm sad and mourn the loss life will never be the same. But I didn't, I didn't take it personally. Right. Betrayal you take personally
Dr. Stephanie Gray 9:12
is different. So how does that affect us? So what are some physical symptoms of betrayal and emotional symptoms as well and mental symptoms?
Dr. Debi Silber 9:19
Yeah. And this leads to the next discovery, and this was that there is this collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayal. It's known as post betrayal syndrome. And we have a quiz on our site to see to what extent people are struggling. We've had over 14,000 people I have checked, it could be more in the last year and a half or so. every age, almost every country is represented, and a few things. The first thing is we've been taught Time heals all wounds. I have the proof that's not true. Because there's a question that says Is there anything else you'd like to share, and people write things like my betrayal happened 35 years ago, now Not willing to trust again. My betrayal happened 40 years ago, I can feel the hate. My betrayal happened 15 years ago, I feel gutted. So we know it stays with us until we face it, feel it heal it. It's a very unique type of trauma. But I pulled some stats, and I'm happy to read some. So you see go somewhere. Yeah, yeah.
Because it's staggering when you see what betrayal does. And it's because this is that person who gave us that sense of safety and security. So 94% deal with painful triggers. And now we think PTSD is only reserved for like war vets. No, it's very common. So cognitively, we know the experience isn't happening happening all over again. But the body thinks it's going on. It's D day discovery day all over. So very painful. Here's some of the most common physical symptoms. So 71% have low energy 68% sleep issues, 63% extreme fatigue 47% weight changes, 45% digestive issues, that could be anything from IBS, krones diverticulitis, diverticulosis, constipation, diarrhea, you name it. And what's so interesting, I think about the gut is, you know, think about it, it absorbs digest and processes food, why is it any wonder, you know, I mean, is it betrayal difficult to absorb digest and process? So the gut itself parallels there? Yeah, yeah. So that's just physical, some of the most common mental symptoms 78% are overwhelmed 70% are in a state of disbelief 64% in shock, 62%, unable to concentrate. So just
Dr. Stephanie Gray 11:39
mix found like all my patients,
Dr. Debi Silber 11:42
right? The overwhelm with, let's say, a gut issue, you see how like, uncomfortable it is, plus just trying to manage this betrayal. That's not even the emotional symptoms. 88% extreme sadness, 83% anger, you just waver back and forth between anger and sadness, that's exhausting. Right there. 80% anxiety 79% are stressed. Here's why I wrote trust, again, 84% have an inability to trust 67% are preventing themselves from forming deep relationships, because they're afraid of being hurt again, 82% find it hard to move forward, and 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how that's at a 14 15,000 people.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 12:26
Yikes, that's amazing that you've collected those statistics that you could share. And again, it sounds like my patients, you know, we I have a hormone clinic, I have a functional medicine clinic. But I would say I built that practice on some hormone optimization techniques and strategies, whatnot. And I think optimizing hormones can help women so much go through traumas, you know, stressful situations, whatnot, but I've come to learn over the past few years, there's just so much more to it, yes, we can balance their hormones and get them feeling better in their skin. However, when there are I don't know how to say this, I don't want to say unresolved issues, using appropriate terminology that had been stuffed or not dealt with for decades or, you know, whatnot. Clearly, we have to address that. And I think providers like myself struggle with knowing how to do that. So I want to talk about the hope today like what you can offer.
Dr. Debi Silber 13:14
Right? So and what's so interesting is I mean, that's why we have certified coaches and practitioners because the most well meaning and amazing doctors, healers, coaches, therapists are doing their very best to work with this client or patient. But if they don't know what's at the root of it, and then how to manage, you know, the symptoms, when it shows up. They're just at a loss. And it's frustrating for the doctor, the therapist and for the client, the patient. It really is because betrayal effects so much.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 13:46
Absolutely. So what are the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough that you've discovered in your study? And maybe you've shared a little bit of this, but let's let's more dive into that.
Dr. Debi Silber 13:56
Yeah, sure. This one was just crazy. Because what was so exciting about this was the minute the five stages were discovered, that's when, you know, we knew, Oh, my gosh, there's a predictable way to move through something like this. And that that was just so exciting. So the first is if you and I go into detail, interest again, but here I'll share. The first is like a setup stage. If you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. What I saw with every single study participant me included was this real heavy lien on the physical and the mental, and kind of neglecting the emotional and the spiritual. So what does that look like? Looks like we're really good at thinking and doing and not really prioritizing the feeling and being. Now that's not to say, and I'm sure so many people come to you. That's their story. That's not to say if you're busy getting things done, it's a setup for betrayal. It's what I typically saw. What's interesting to that is, it's in the feeling and being that's where intuition lies, and we turn that down when we're so busy, which could have served us and Wait, if the table only has two legs strong and solid, easy to topple over that stage to stage two is the shock.
That's D day discovery day. And this is the shock and the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview. So this is by far the scariest stage, here's where you ignite the stress response. So you're headed for every single stress related symptom, illness condition, disease, your mind is in a complete state of overwhelming chaos, you cannot make sense out of what you just learned. And your worldview is shattered. That's your mental model. These are the rules. This is how it works. Don't go there, this person safe. And in one moment, everything you knew to be really true is no longer. So here's truly where the bottom bottoms out on you. And the new bottom hasn't been formed yet. It's terrifying. But think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do, you would grab hold of anything you could to stay safe and stay alive. And that stage three survival instincts emerge. It's an entirely practical stage. Where do I go? How will I survive this experience? Who can I trust, but here's the biggest trap. Once we figured out, you know how to survive, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where we just came from.
We're like, Who? Okay, I'm good. And we start planning routes here. We have no idea. There's even a stage for stage five. And then a few things happen. The first thing that happens is we start planting roots, and we start getting these small self benefits from being there. We get our story, we get to be right, we get someone to blame, we get a target for our anger, we don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again, do I trust you? I just yeah, forget, I won't trust anybody. And then the longer we stay, now our mind starts doing things like, well, maybe you deserved it, maybe you're not all that, maybe, you know, maybe there's the best you can hope for. And now the roots go in deeper. Now, the longer we stay, now we start you know, like energy attracts like energy. So now people and circumstances come towards you to confirm, this is where you belong. It gets even deeper, but don't get shattered. But don't worry, because because this doesn't feel good. And we have no idea it gets any better.
This is the place where we start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy reckless behavior, whatever it is, because we don't know it's anything is better. So we're trying to resign ourselves. And being okay with the idea like this is as good as it gets, I better be okay with it. So you do this for a day, a week, a month, a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, I can see someone 20 years out and say that emotional eating, issue that drinking, diving into your work, do you think it has anything to do with your betrayal? And they'd say, Oh, my gosh, no, that happened 20 years ago. But you see, they stayed in a perpetual holding pattern. And that's stage three most common place to get stuck. I'm sure the majority of your
patients, right, that's where they are. They're doing their best. But that's where they're stuck. If they're willing to let go of the small self benefits, grieve, mourn the loss, the bunch of things that they need to do, they can move to stage four, stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. Here's where you're like, Okay, I can't undo my betrayal. But I can control how I move through it from here.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 18:29
This is where boundaries come in.
Dr. Debi Silber 18:31
Definitely, yeah. And what's so interesting about this, and I always liken this to if you've ever moved to a new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, all your stuff is in there, it's not cozy yet, but it's going to be okay. And that's what's happening here. We're turning down the stress response. We're not physically healing just yet. But we're not causing the massive damage we were causing in stage two and stage three. And what's so interesting here too, is if you were to move, you don't take everything with you, right, you don't take the things that you've outgrown, that don't represent who you want to be in that new space. If your friends weren't there for you, here's where you leave them. Here's where you've just outgrown them. And it happens all the time. And people say to me, Oh, my gosh, what the heck, I've had these friends for years. Is it me? Yes, it is. Now you're transforming. You're You're undergoing this transformation, and it's just no longer a fit. So when you're in this stage four, you're making it your own, you're making it Okay, you're settling in, you can move into the fifth most beautiful stage and this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview.
The body starts to heal, you didn't have the bandwidth to eat well exercise, self love, self care, you were surviving. Now you do your mind. You're making new rules, new boundaries, just like you said, you know, because of all you've been through, and you have a new worldview, based on your entire experience, and the four legs of the table. Remember in the beginning, it was just all about the physical and the mental, by this point were solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual to those of five stages.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:01
Wow. So when a client comes to see you or your coaches can usually pretty, pretty much tell what stage they're in 100%
Dr. Debi Silber 20:07
Oh, yeah. And that's why the coaches are certified in the five stages. So this way they know, you know, they'll say, Oh, this person is clearly in a stage two, this person is deeply rooted in that stage three, whatever it is, because when we know that, then we know what they need. We know what the resistance would be, we know what they're ready for, and what they're not ready for, like even, you know, the signature program that we have, and I, it's available to all of our members within the community. There are experiential activities that are so powerful. But if someone does them too early, it backfires. Every time. Although the process, this whole process from betrayal to breakthrough is linear, it's messy, it's sticky, it's uncomfortable. It's it's grueling. That's why people stay rooted in that stage three, because they don't want to face that stuff is painful.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:57
And it sounds like there's really no rhythm or rhyme to like how long post betrayal it takes to get through the stages, like someone in a year could get through all of them. Or it could be 40 years, and they could still be in stage two or stage three, like,
Dr. Debi Silber 21:10
You're so right. And what's interesting, too, is I thought when I was doing the research, I was like, you know, and you're not supposed to assume anything, I was new at all. But I was like, Oh, you know what, I bet the people who have the least like where their betrayal just didn't seem as as big as someone else's, they'll heal faster, because they're not as hard hit. So they'll get through it quicker. Do you know that had zero to do with it, nothing to do with it at all? It was the ones who just said that's it. I'm not numbing, avoiding distracting. I'm facing this thing head on. I don't know what it's gonna look like or feel like, but I'm not picking my head up until enough the other side, they blew the doors off of the ones who are moving through it differently. And I'm sure that's why I healed the way I did too, because I just, I was just so determined just to move through it and not hold back anything.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 22:00
Sure. So you correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we all been betrayed at some point throughout our life? I mean, obviously, there are different degrees of severity with a betrayal. So if we've all been betrayed, at some point, whether it was in third grade or in our 20s, or 50s, or whatnot, how do we know if we have post betrayal syndrome? Like how would How do we know if we we have that?
Dr. Debi Silber 22:20
Yeah, well, you know what, it doesn't necessarily have to be like you said, those big traumatic betrayals, it could be sort of the death by 1000 cuts, kind of Sure, you know, or one times the ones right, or it could just be someone did something that hurt you. I mean, there were just so many different levels of it. But here's how I see it. What will I can spot an unhealed betrayal from a mile away. Because we see it in health, we see it in work, we see it in relationships. So here's what it would look like in relationships. I see it in two ways. The first way would be repeat betrayals, the faces change, but it's the same thing. So you go from boss, the boss, the boss, you know, friend, random friend, partner, partner, partner, you're like, what the heck is it? Me? Yes, there's a profound lesson that needs to be learned about boundaries about that you are lovable, worthy, deserving, whatever it is, and until and unless you do, you're going to keep having opportunities to learn that,
Dr. Stephanie Gray 23:15
like opportunities to get betrayed, basically,
Dr. Debi Silber 23:18
until you get the mother of all betrayals, and you say, That's it. I'm never going to do this. I'll never stand for that. I'll never game over. Right, done. You've learned it sounds. And I'm not saying that means. It's the betrayal was our fault. What I've come to learn is it really is our opportunity. Yeah, interesting. And I know that sounds so crazy, but but here's the thing. It was because of that second betrayal for me, where I said, that's it. Now, I'm doing something for myself. I had never done anything for myself. And I was like, I'm gonna, this is what I need to do. And it changed my entire life.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 23:57
Dr. Debi Silber 24:00
So that's the that's the opportunity. The second way we see it in relationships is when that big wall is up. Nope, Been there, done that. No one's getting close to me again. And we think it's coming from a place of strength. It's not it's coming from fear. You know, it's like, it's like getting burned on the stove and saying, That's it never cooking again. It's not fair to you, you know, I mean, we should learn how to carefully and cautiously approach to the stove. Yes. Right. But there's a way to do that. We see it in, in work to where, let's say people want to ask for that raise or promotion, and they deserve it. But their confidence was shattered in the betrayal. So they don't have the confidence to ask or they want to be a team player or work on that collaborative project with someone but the person they trusted, the most proved untrustworthy, how could they possibly trust someone else so it shows up in so many ways.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 24:51
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Thank you, that's so good for our listeners to try to identify if they're in this, if they're stuck, essentially, what this post betrayal syndrome. So let's talk about post betrayal transformation. And you've already differentiated how this is different than just post traumatic growth. So how do we get to this post betrayal? transformation? So you talk about the stages of betrayal, right? Like, what are the stages of transformation or like, like, how does someone and I know you can't just answer this? I'm sure it's mentioned Well, in your interest again, book. But how does someone get to that transformation? Are there just some tidbits that you can can share? Maybe that would help an individual out of certain stages or give the mic back to you? And you give our listeners some hope? Yeah.
Dr. Debi Silber 26:27
Yeah, absolutely. It's, as you're moving through the stages, you are transforming, okay, you are undergoing that transformation, when you're stuck in that stage three, and that's where you stay. It hasn't even happened yet. The transformation is happening in stages four and stage five. So that's where it's happening. So that's the first thing. The second thing is you're actually creating a new identity, you're taking the parts you love, you're leaving behind the parts that no longer serve. And that's the scariest thing, because and we see it in the community all the time, it looks like something as simple as we just had a member say something like, I'm in such a hard position. Because my husband, it was a husband and wife and she's, it's happened many times. So she's finally standing her ground. He's out of the house and the old version of her when he would just say, oh, but what about the family and all of this?
And she would be like, okay, and it was she reached out for support in the community. Because here's such a hard moment, when it's like, I know what the old me would do. But I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to be that anymore. And it was the hardest thing just to say, No, I'm not doing that. And it was terrifying. But then, you know, how did she feel after? Amazing? Like, wow, I never did that. So if I did that, who let me recover? What else can I do? And it's a process like that where you say, Okay, I had this, this opportunity to see, you know, what was working? What wasn't? Who am I? Who do I want to become, and you need to stick with it. And when it comes to reconciliation, if it's an opportunity, if it's something that's less but interested in, you can't let up for a minute with that, if you're determined to bring this new version of you into this potentially new relationship, you can allow for the old version of that partner, either. You're coming into this as two very different people.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 28:21
I have to ask a personal question. So how did you get to the point of reconciliation with your husband then? So you essentially, do you feel like you got through these five stages yourself? Like, and what about him that he also got?
Dr. Debi Silber 28:32
Yeah, well, that's the thing. This was I mean, it was and I talk all about me, my story's in there in the book. And it was by far hands down, the hardest thing I've ever done. forgiving and moving on, like I did with my family was a cakewalk compared to this. What happened with with us was, I got him out of the house immediately, I had no idea what was going to happen. I was just like, that's it. It's my turn. What do I want, I want to go through this Ph. D. program, having no idea what was waiting, but that was it. And then of course, we spoke because of the kids and everything. And the kids would tell me and I've four kids 2524 20 and 19. But they were they were teenagers at the time. And they would say to me, Mom, you know, within like, two three days, he sold his fancy car. He got rid of his fancy clothes. It was like he had the biggest wake up call of his life now. It could possibly also be because he was the one who told my kids now as terrible as it was to break my heart and tell me this, you know, to have your four kids looking at you like you did what?
To our mom, like if anything is gonna have you wake up. It's losing the respect the trust the all of it from really the people closest to you. So, you know, so he sort of was working through that. And realizing that he just lost the only things that you know, the only people that mattered and He said, Tell me what to do here. Where are we? And it was so interesting, because, of course, we spoke as the kids, but I was like, if we're gonna have any kind of conversation Other than that, you need to know who I am. And he had been just making fun of it or whatever. But I was very spiritual. So he said, Okay, tell me what to read, tell me what to do. And he took to it. It was crazy. And the next thing I knew, the kids were telling me, Mom, he's like, because we're in New York, he's going into the city on Saturday mornings and telling the homeless they matter and buying them food. And he's, wow, he just trained for hospice. And he's, and he's a real estate guy. And he's, he was handing out Wayne Dyer DVDs to everybody in his office. Like he took this to a whole other level.
And, and it was interesting, because with betrayal, there's such a shattering of trust. You don't trust your betrayer certainly. And you don't trust yourself. So I'm like, okay, I trust in something someone other than me. So I had a session with an intuitive coaches, it's become a different. I walk in, and she says, Oh, my gosh, how you to plan this? I was like, What did you just say? She said, Oh, yeah, he needed something so catastrophic to crash and burn so he can become the husband, father, friend, and he's supposed to be you. You need to crash and burn so you can heal and really be able to teach from this deep place of knowing you're going to have an institute and books in this whole big following around betrayal. And I said, You're crazy.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 31:27
I got the chills. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Debi Silber 31:29
Yeah. So then there was something about that. That was that seed of what if she's right, let me go through everything I'm gonna go through. And if I don't want to do this, if I can't do this, then I'm good. But what if she's right? Mm hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 31:45
Amazing. I think transformation is beautiful. It's I mean, that's what hopefully everybody wants all the listeners, right. So tell us a little bit about your coaching program or what's available online? Obviously, you have your quiz.
Dr. Debi Silber 31:56
Yeah. So the PBT Institute stands for post betrayal transformation Institute, I looked at it. And I said, based on the research, based on what the 14 15,000 people have said that they need. And then I also saw what wasn't what people were typically doing going to a therapist. And if that therapist isn't highly skilled, it actually does more harm than good. Or they're in a support group like that. Ain't it awful club, and it keeps them stuck in if you if you're feeling better, you don't belong, or there's nothing avoiding. And I said, Okay, well, I'm really not subscribing to those things. So what if I had everything all in one place, and that's the PBT Institute.
So what it is, is it's completely online, we have people all over the world. So we have our certified coaches, and they teach daily classes. They're certified in the five stages, but they're coming in with 10 2030 years in nutrition psychology, in trauma, in chronic pain, in narcissism, in reconciliation, in addiction, and they're so they're teaching, we have masterclasses with experts and the programs, the signature programs are there. So people have 24, seven access to it. I'm in there teaching, and we have the most amazing supportive community there that really lifts and inspires. So it's everything that I saw was needed. Everything I would have wanted, you create it. And now it's here for everybody. Yeah, so it's just it's an amazing space.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 33:18
That's beautiful. I will wrap up in a few minutes here, but I want to go back because when you mentioned numbing out, I do want to go back so that listeners can kind of reflect and assess if they are numbing, avoiding distracting whatnot. So how would one know if they're in that stage?
Dr. Debi Silber 33:35
Yeah, I wait for some people. And sometimes it's not. So I invite everybody to write these questions down. And that's my way of saying write these down. And the first question would be, and I numbing and avoiding? If so, hell, be honest with yourself. Do you walk into the kitchen? And you're you know, there you are. You're in the cabinet, you know, the least bit hungry? Do you put the TV on? Because you are desperately trying to drown out the sound of your own thoughts? Be honest with yourself, call yourself on it? The second question, what am I pretending not to see? My pretending not to see there's trouble in my relationship? Am I pretending that see that health issue that needs my attention? Am I pretending not to see I hate my job? What am I pretending not to see? Be honest. The third question, What's life going to look like in five to 10 years? If I keep this going? Play it all the way out. Take that, that relationship issue. Yeah, right. Take that, you know, job issue, take that health issue. What's it gonna look like play it all the way up? And the last question, what could life look like in five to 10 years if I change Now, I'm not saying it's easy transformation begins when you tell yourself the truth.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 34:45
That's good. That's deep. So I have to ask all those stats that we open this discussion with, right, the stats of the emotional and mental and what was the third, physical symptoms of those who have taken your quiz? Have you tracked Have you seen those stats improved? Like, what do you see after someone has gone through the five strange stages? And they've transformed? What are you seeing? symptomatically? You know, in the interest again,
Dr. Debi Silber 35:07
I also have the study participants, and you read story after story of like, like one of them just comes to mind. And she said, You know, I had I would go to the hospital every three months with the most extreme, I think it was kaleidos. And when she, you know, she got to a certain point in her healing, that was it gone? totally gone. Weight changes, it was so clear, you know, someone would said, like, people would say to her, Oh, my gosh, she's so radiant. What did you do this confidence, just everything improves energy, health, all of it. I mean, we see that every single day, we see it in the strength of just in members in the community, even like, I have this open q&a that I do with everybody. And there was somebody who was just saying what was going on with her a recent experience. And someone else said, Oh, my gosh, you sound so different than you sounded a few weeks ago. It's that quick when you dive in and do the work.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 36:04
Beautiful, beautiful. So thank you so much for coming on the show and really probably introducing many of our listeners to essentially what post betrayal syndrome and transformation are, because I think many of us probably have been betrayed and have no idea that it's impacted our health or right for decades. So I do have to go back and ask you real quick, as I ask every guest and then we'll wrap up your top longevity tip and maybe it's just what you've said to address your betrayal. But I have to ask what's your top longevity tip?
Dr. Debi Silber 36:36
You know, I have to go with the first thing that comes to mind and it's Joy. Joy, we're here to experience joy. If we're not get the other stuff out of the way heal it. We're not here just to have hardships and we do nothing with it. The most joyful people I know have been through the most because they have that gift of perspective. Yes. So clear up whatever it is get the support you need. You're it's not like you're here for just a bad game of hot potato. It sits on you and that's it. Do the work and experience the joy that's what we're here for.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 37:08
Beautiful, tell listeners where they can find you again,
Dr. Debi Silber 37:11
I would say take the post betrayal syndrome quiz. You just find that at the PBT as in post betrayal transformation that PBT Institute com forward slash quiz.
Dr. Stephanie Gray 37:21
Awesome. Thank you so much, Debbie. This was I should say, Dr. Debbie Silber, this was amazing. Thank you so much. You're gifted and congratulations on your transformation. Thank you. Thank you. Wow, what another fascinating interview betrayal clearly can impact our physical, emotional and mental health. If you've been betrayed before and think you could have post betrayal syndrome, please take the quiz link up which we'll post in the show notes. I'm certainly looking forward to reading Dr. Debbie Silver's book trust again and I hope today provided you hope that you can learn to trust again, be sure to check out my book your longevity blueprint. And if you aren't much of a reader, you're in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book plus for a limited time the course is 50% off. Check this offer out at your longevity blueprint calm and click the course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. Leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I do read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics guests and for how you're applying what you learn on the show to create your own longevity blueprint. The podcast is produced by the team at counterweight creative As always, thank you so much for listening and remember, wellness is waiting.
The information provided in this podcast is educational. No information provided should be considered to be or used as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always consult with your personal medical authority.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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