70. EBV Solution with Dr. Kasia Kines

Dr. Kasia Kines 0:03

The better nutritional status, the weaker the virus. If you do that, then you suddenly turn down the volume.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 0:12

Welcome to the your longevity blueprint podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Stephanie gray. My number one goal with the show is to help you discover your personalized plan to build your dream health and live a longer, happier, truly healthier life. You're about to hear from Dr. Kasha kinds, and today she's going to talk about one of the most common missed infections, the epstein barr virus, how it may be affecting your health and of course, what you can do about it. Let's get to it.

Welcome to another episode of The your longevity blueprint podcast today. My guest is Dr. KAUSHIK Hines who is the CEO and founder of the global epstein barr virus Institute, a global leader in recovery therapy for chronic epstein barr virus, and Amazon best selling author of the epstein barr virus solution, a wellness expert and a highly respected doctor in Clinical Nutrition. She is a graduate of St. Louis University, the Harvard of natural medicine and its world acclaimed graduate nutrition program. She was also in the first ever cohort of doctorates in functional Clinical Nutrition from Maryland University of integrative health since 2005.

Dr. Kimes has built an international reputation as a clinical functional nutritionist from being sought after by Johns Hopkins University to clients globally to her groundbreaking book about epstein barr virus. Dr. Collins has developed a proprietary evidence based methodology and approach to epstein barr virus recovery, which is now available to anyone in her highly successful epstein barr virus recovery program. She also provides professional clinical training to other practitioners in her clinical epstein barr virus training and certification program and epstein barr virus practitioner workshop. Dr. Kines is a passionate advocate for debunking common misinformation about epstein barr virus in the medical community, and lectures on this topic extensively. She's on a mission to bring her epstein barr virus knowledge and solution to the world globally so that no one needs to suffer needlessly from the misunderstood virus and its complications. Welcome to the show. Dr. kinds are so happy to be here. Thank

Dr. Kasia Kines 2:06

you for having me.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 2:08

Tell me your story. So how did you become the epstein barr virus queen?

Dr. Kasia Kines 2:12

I'm just the messenger. Basically, when the student is ready, the teacher appears basically that's what happened. I had a very close friend who died of multiple sclerosis in Poland while I was building my life here. She was still in Poland. And I was not able to help her even though at certain point I became a nutritionist. And you know, I thought I could that I think fired me up because I always asked the question why I couldn't help her What happened? And at certain point, in my desperation, I actually asked medical intuitive about what happened, why No, she just ended up with a mess out of the blue nav was mentioned. And then a couple of my patients at the same time asked me to give them an educated opinion on the book, Medical Medium. It was a hard book at that time. I didn't have time to read, but I was going to a medical conference. So I bought the book. I read it on the plane, you know how it is. I have nowhere to go, I can read on the plane.

And I almost fell off my chair, the plane because I was reading stories of the patients I couldn't help basically, you know, as you go deeper into functional medicine or functional nutrition practice, you work more and more with certain presentation. And at certain point, you start hitting the wall, you get as you know, you get more and more complicated cases, you get demoralized, you start to feel like you're an imposter. You start doubting yourself, you always think about people you couldn't help instead of all those that you could. And I knew there was something that was in the way and I didn't know what it was. And unfortunately, nobody was teaching about anything. There was nothing. So that book was interesting, because after that conference, I went back home. And I started to look at medical literature about testing. And so that I just really there was a lot of there was a lot of medical literature and a lot I learned a lot about testing that doctors still don't know for some reason, but it's all in there. So then I started to ask to test and then we started to find it. Just really the student is ready, the teachers appeared. I was extremely lucky, extremely lucky.

Even having Dr. Vasquez in my doctoral program training in neurology. That doesn't happen. You don't get that training anywhere. Institute for functional medicine doesn't provide that, you know, conferences that don't provide that there was a lecture on EBV at one of the conferences I actually attended by Institute for functional medicine. And the practitioner that had that lecture had a standing ovation, but he didn't quite have the protocols. He was still trying to figure it out, he had some success. So on there, there wasn't much. So I had to rely on medical literature. And then I had to decide Medical Medium was becoming really a hit. And you know, there there are millions of fans and so forth. So there's an extreme of the spectrum. And for those listening that are not familiar with it, this is a man who is guided by a spirit of compassion. His books are written by the spirit of compassion. Not everybody believes in that on the other spectrum is medical culture and medical community that is completely on the opposite spectrum, following literature, but they're not following the literature because they're not updated. They don't know what the literature says.

And in the middle is millions of people that don't belong to either, but need the solutions. So basically, I felt my job was to bridge the gap. And basically, on that plane, I thought, the claims are huge in the book. But what if I go into medical literature? What What can I verify? What can I actually find? What can I prove? Are any claims actually valid. So basically, my job was I just jumped into medical literature, and I never stopped and I was going and going and going and going to the point where a certain point I stopped looking, and oftentimes, even today, when people have some random medical conditions that I'm not familiar with, I'll do medical literature search, and I'll find connections

are certain time I stopped doing research for the board, because I have to stop. I remember I was ready to to get it published. And then I said, Well, wait a second. You know, I've worked with gut issues all these years. Well, what about IBD, which has Crohn's and ulcerative colitis? Now that can be I've never seen any connection now that could not possibly be, but I said, Well, why don't I just look? And there it was, there were a couple of consistent studies, claiming that up to 60% of either of those could be triggered by the virus visually. So I almost fell off that chair again, like where does the end? Yeah, so basically, you know, I had a responsibility to do something about it. I was doing a lot of that work, groundwork reading, but then I started to apply it. And then I started to piece together protocols, and they worked. And so then people started telling me I have to write a book. I was the last person to write a book. And you did I don't have a life I have so

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:32

much. It's a really big book. Yeah. For the listeners. Yes,

Dr. Kasia Kines 7:37

it wrote itself. I don't know how I still don't know how I did it. I have no idea how I wrote this book.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 7:43

It sounds like for the listeners, because I've read the Medical Medium book as well. It's been a long time. But if I remember right, he pretty much claims that viruses cause a lot of everything. I mean, there's a lot of things, a lot of sounds. So it sounds like you question that and you thought, okay, I want to look into this and you looked into the medical literature and you kept finding a connection. I think that's what you're saying between epstein barr virus, and lots of chronic diseases. And so then you felt called Yes, called to figure out some protocols and treat patients. So I want to get into what epstein barr virus is. But I'll first mentioned in chapter eight of my book, Your longevity blueprint, I compare the protective roof of the home to the immune system within the body, right, you want to have a strong protective immune system to keep invaders out just like you want to have a strong roof over your head at home. So in this chapter, I bring up chronic infections like Lyme disease, we talked I talked about chronic viruses and even mold. And for the listeners, I do have some upcoming guests who are going to dive deep into Lyme and mold. But today is all about epstein barr virus. So Dr. kinds, can you define what epstein barr virus is, and then we'll kind of get into chronic epstein barr virus.

Dr. Kasia Kines 8:50

It's a herpes virus that's been on this planet for a couple of millions of years, basically. And for some odd reason, right now it's really aggressive and impacts people's lives and maybe toxicity in the environment and spiritual emotional toxicity and stress. Maybe they have something to do with this. It's complicated, but yeah, and nutrition, nutritional status that is dropping in human body. Yeah, also has to do with it. Yep. So

Dr. Stephanie Gray 9:20

it's kind of known as a kissing disease. Right? Like you think mano epstein barr virus causes right mono, which you think of in you know, rundown high schoolers or college students or whatnot. That's probably all the listeners know about this virus. They've heard of it, but they just don't know much about it. Why is chronic epstein barr virus or EBV? We'll keep saying EBV through this podcast. So why is chronic EBV the elephant in the room?

Dr. Kasia Kines 9:44

Well, so people have mono and typically the doctor will say six weeks he'll be out of it. You just go to bed sleep, get hydrated sleep more rest, nothing to do. There's no solution. There's no you know, cure. a percentage of people. Like I said they don't have a strong phone. And in their immune system, a percentage of people do not go back to the baseline. So after those six weeks, nothing really changes back to normal. So suddenly they are more fatigued, they can't pick up. And so there is a concept in medical literature called chronic mononucleosis syndrome. And if you compare symptoms and presentations, it's very close to chronic fatigue syndrome. So with chronic fatigue syndrome, first thing to exclude is the virus. Sure, because the virus, I would say the weak link is where the virus will go, the virus will travel through the blood and look for residents. It's like looking for a condo.

And it could be your spleen. It depends on the age depending you know, spleen is as frequent for younger for kids, for boys, for younger women, girls, it can be the liver. If it's the liver, you can develop autoimmune hepatitis. If it's the thyroid tissue, then you can develop hashimotos or graves or both just not at the same time. If it's, you know, liver, spleen, connective tissue, Vegas nerve difference. No, it has to go somewhere. And so just like you talk about the house, I often teach my students we're building a brick house, really solid house. We have to start with foundations. This is not how about houses are built in the States, unfortunately, which is an invitation to mold By the way, but that's a different story.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 11:34

Where are you from? Where are you from? Again? You said Poland is where you are? Is that where you were born?

Dr. Kasia Kines 11:38

Yes. I'm from Poland, then that's how we vote works.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 11:42

Yeah. But now you're in California. Where are you right now? Washington State

Dr. Kasia Kines 11:47

okay. San Juan

Dr. Stephanie Gray 11:48

Islands. Yeah. Okay. Back to EBV. So yes, it can ascend. Sounds like it's looking for residents anywhere. And maybe that's why it's, it's really under appreciated. And many doctors miss it. I have to ask the listeners probably think Well, does it 90% of the population have this virus doesn't everybody carry it? So it can't be that bad? Well, if I'm speaking appropriately, the problem is when this virus that maybe you did have in high school or whatnot, right can become reactivated. Yes. So how do we know if the virus becomes reactivated? So

Dr. Kasia Kines 12:21

very good question is your immune system does what it needs to do. And if you have all the supplies, so all the nutrients that you're supposed to have, the virus doesn't really cannot really operate. If you have high antioxidant diet, let's say the virus thrives on most thrives on Wi Fi technology thrives on low nutritional status, junk food, like literature is very clear. This direction, like if your nutritional status drops, the virus becomes more virulent, more aggressive. Let's say if you have one meal of junk food, that increases your NF Kappa b, which drives the virus, one meal one meal it was there was a study it was two hours 150% increase. And during those two hours, you have more NF Kappa b that will drive more reactivation of the virus. Just as simple as that diet is paramount. And we have a lot of toxic cloud in my environment and talk some specific toxins reactivate the virus, like cigarette smoke, or dioxins from the fireworks or burning forest or burning fire burning fire.

That's dioxin fuel burning, depending on what kind produces dioxin as well. So you know, we talk about mono in college mono in high school. But what people don't realize is that astronauts in space are given antiviral medications prophylactically or have it just in case because they have a higher likelihood of developing reactivation of the virus. Now, why is that? Why is that? I think it's the physiological changes. When you are in space, everything is disrupted, sukhadia, gravity thought is different. And so it's stressful, you know, different types of stressors, not just physical. But there's imagine and so they are more susceptible stresses than the one reactivating factor. Come to think of it in literature, as well as in practice. I mean, it really is, that is what will throw people in their box with EBV stress,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 14:29

and just drive this virus up. I want to maybe conclude the podcast with things we can do to reduce the virus, the chance of the virus, reactivating things like reducing stress, but maybe let's go back for a moment first, to a little bit of what you were saying I want to talk about usual and unusual presentations of EBV. So you mentioned some autoimmune diseases, right? It sounds like you think your friend could have had who passed away of Ms. Unfortunately, could have had this virus and we don't know, right? So you mentioned connective tissue issues. So I am assuming auto I mean diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus. Ms. You said hashimotos. You mentioned a little bit of inflammatory bowel disease. What are other again, kind of usual and unusual presentations. You mentioned chronic fatigue as well. But I'll, I'll give you the reins on that. Like when someone comes into your office, maybe you're thinking everybody has this, but like, what symptoms are going to flag you to want to check for chronic ABB?

Dr. Kasia Kines 15:21

Number one, and this is what literature says. If you have chronic illness, if you have a patient with chronic illness, and they don't respond to therapy, you should that's what literature says you should test for EBV chronic EBV and it's quoted, number one. Number two, you there is a so called idiopathic condition. idiopathic means there's no explanation for it. You should exclude chronic EBV. That's literature. Okay. Okay. And then practically, when you have patients, and you struggle with them, and it's not for the lack of trying those complex cases, those complex cases when you have you know, I've been there, we did everything, right. And I remember some cases like oh my gosh, I remember that woman did have a lab report on EBV. But I didn't even know what it was. But this these are patients that have been through the wringer that have seen 1050 doctors, you know, these are the people that are seeking functional medicine practitioners. And we can help them sometimes we can, but sometimes we can take them to another step. But we can't move the needle all the way. There's something there and we were just not hitting it. That would be the population.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 16:31

Yeah, I Well said, you just have my mind spinning here. What about cancer? I've heard I think in your book, I have not read the entire book. But I believe this is something about oncogenic potential. So can the virus also lead to certain cancers?

Dr. Kasia Kines 16:44

Correct. So it is oncogenic. If you think about it, traditionally, B cells B as in boy, B cells are they mean cells that are infected. And so they lose the ability to self terminate, they lose the ability to send an SOS message to other cells to come and kill them, because they're infected. But they're their clone in perfect quality. They are a little bit like cancer cells, they never die, they just lose that ability. And so the cloning is the cloning of the cells is how the EBV actually sustains itself between reactivations. And so these B cells can become oncogenic because they are like cancer cells, they don't die. And so there's different mechanisms in which the virus can create cancer. Is it more lymphomas? specific? Yes, lymphoma, Hodgkin's, and so on, so forth. But they're, they're looking more into more common types of cancer, like breast cancer, and they're noticing that the tumor is seems to be more aggressive in the breast tissue where they do find EBV in there as well. colorectal cancer, there are some associations as well, like with the cancer research, some researchers say there's a strong connection with EBV. Some researchers say well, some studies are not showing in other researchers as well, some of those studies are weak. That's why they're not showing. Definitely there's something there. So these are newer studies. Sure. So there's quite a lot of types of cancer 10% of stomach cancer, gastric cancer is most likely 10 or more is caused by the virus. Now who knew? I mean, I didn't know.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 18:23

So knowing this virus is very prevalent, right? And obviously, we want to keep our immune systems that protective roof strong, so the virus cannot wage war on us. Right. But knowing that it's prevalent, I want to talk about testing because I think that's where, even with well trained functional medicine practitioners, that's where there is just a confusion. I think a lot of practitioners don't know exactly how to test how to interpret the labs, right? If you have an eye G, G, antibody to the virus that says you have had exposure, but it doesn't necessarily say that the virus has been reactivated. So tell me why. Okay, well, then we're going to talk about so tell me why testing is typically done all wrong. And why interpretation of labs is worse. Let's spend some time here.

Dr. Kasia Kines 19:06

We actually and I can direct this as the best picture is worth a million words. No, there is a fabulous color coded graph in my book is not color coded, unfortunately, because it was too expensive but but we put this graph in color on my website EBV health.com. So if you go to that website and click on lab page, it's all explained there you can see colors and then it's text like then you can relate it it's kind of hard to think of it when you don't see that image. The common panel that the doctor will will order has three antibodies and the key antibodies, early antigen is typically missing. And even when patients are already trained, or read the book or are aware of it and they request the fourth one to be added oftentimes it's just not added. If you just test the three common antibodies you will not actually understand the status The The only AGM in the panel is VCA, AGM, but that only seems to flag when is the initial infection. So in most chronic cases, it's not going to be elevated, it's going to be normal. Your PCA AGM is a long term, big marker that will probably be elevated for the rest of a person's life. And it will fluctuate a little higher, a little lower depending what we activation status you have. So this even when you heal from a dv and you have a full functionality that will not be normal.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:34

Which one say that one again? VCA RG G, okay. Okay.

Dr. Kasia Kines 20:39

Another big one that will be elevated for the rest of your life is Eb and a big G.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 20:45

Yeah, I haven't heard of that. One. Is that the fourth one that no one can get ordered?

Dr. Kasia Kines 20:49

No, no, it's the third one Eb and a big G. So a big G and VCA, AIG, they they are high in that population and they will remain high. But like I said, depending on the status of EBV, they can go higher positive or lower positive, they fluctuate so you can kind of see your status. And as I mentioned before, because they will stay you know, they will be flagged for the rest of the person's life. They're not the best markers to just assess your EBV status because you may be functional you may have a good life, you may be perfectly fine there still card and high it just depends where they are. Sure, the worst one the most important is early antigen, or the antigen will elevate was the first infection but it will elevate with the reactivation.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 21:40

So II a for early antigen IGA are you talking idg

Dr. Kasia Kines 21:43

idg. And that's why people get confused because it's idg. So I did you would you would assume it's just past exposure, it's not in this case, it does show positive, it doesn't have to be high positive, but it doesn't like the other two can be triple digits. This one can be just a few numbers higher than normal. No, it doesn't elevate. It doesn't spike very high. That's what I'm saying. It can be you know, if the normal is less than nine, it can it can be 10. It can be very low positive to be positive. The other two can be you know, 600 more than 600 even though the normal should be let's say less than nine or less than 19. People have triple digit, oftentimes, and sometimes it's beyond the wrench, like more than 600 right? I see that a lot. Well then this if they are that high, then that's a red flag. Because they don't have to be that high to be positive.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 22:42

So I want to go over those four labs just so that the listeners Yes, you should go to the website and look at the color coded graph. But yeah, but she's talking about and I can never remember abbreviation so I'm just looking in your book. So the VCA IGN VCA I GG, the early antigen EA, I GG, and then the E, B and A GG, is that correct? Correct. Those are the four labs and then for interpretation refer to the graph. So thank you, but beyond beyond labs, I also get the gist that you're looking at symptoms and other things as well. To decide if a patient has this I actually found something interesting in your book too you mentioned it and correct me if I'm wrong but you said something like if you have epstein barr virus antibodies that can lead to false positives on certain food sensitivity testing

Dr. Kasia Kines 23:30

yes so doctor was done he did the study and I asked him and he says he replicated it's the same again and again and again. depending which antibody you look at if you do i and i GG food panel Yeah, some idg foods will show false positive which ones are those? Oh, there's lots of them. There's lots of them so it depends on the which of the antibodies you're looking at. But they they seem to be repeated maybe could be cashews or eggs Yeah, so it's almost irrelevant they there is a list in the book there's yeah so the trouble with this is you have to look at the the list of the food and say alright, let's look at the five top ones because he lists his in the you know, in the severity, and then how high the numbers. So let's look at the first top ones five, let's say of them and see do I eat them all the time? Do I feel worse when I eat them? Right? Oh, have I been eating them all my life and I'm fine. It's like I don't think that I react to these. So typically these are really not problematic. It's just the beauty that makes the claim for false positive.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 24:41

Speaking of eggs, doesn't Medical Medium say something like eggs are a huge source of carrying the virus.

Dr. Kasia Kines 24:48

There. It's complicated. I'm not quite sure exactly how or I barely remember, but there are some suspicions about how vaccinations are resourced from Eggs, and how this can complicate the immune system and impacted. But I do, there was a study on ag e allergies related to EBV. I do always recommend taking eggs out and I would say in 80%, it makes a difference in that population.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 25:19

Okay, so now that we've kind of talked about how likely common this virus is and how it can be a huge variable for chronic disease, of course, the listeners want to know what we can do to swing odds in their favor. So I want to talk about diet changes, and then I want to go back to kind of how EBV hijacks NF Kappa b and kind of talk about supplements that can help but first let's let's start with diet changes, since you just mentioned taking eggs out can be helpful. So tell us I know, it's hard to just speak in blanket terms because every case is different. But what are some nutritional changes you recommend patients consider when when you're treating them for ABB chronic EBV? Here?

Dr. Kasia Kines 25:55

I would say one of the things we haven't discussed, but it's pretty profound is the issue of gluten. In functional medicine, of course, everybody teachers take the gluten out. Yep, in the movie community. Studies have shown that EBV can actually trigger autoimmunity in people with genes for celiac. So literally failure can be turned off by the virus. Once I saw that study, I started to look closely at our community and see how that actually works in practice, and I can see that some people were perfectly fine with gluten before they got chronic EBV infection and then you know they had to remove it. Either they figured it out or they had to be told and then that made a big difference. So gluten really should not be in the diet. Dairy is so pro inflammatory dairy is there's no place I believe there's no place for dairy in the healing process for a human body. And now the way that they are is produced as well. But for a person with a dv that will really that will really backfire. There's there's an i would say i say that 95%

Dr. Stephanie Gray 27:09

so gluten dairy eggs, get them out. Get them out. Sugar, I assume?

Dr. Kasia Kines 27:15

Well, all that yes. But of course the immune system is impacted by by simple sugars. But where people start getting confused is especially people that follow functional medicine. And this is a direction that alarms me personally as a clinical nutritionist is relying on therapeutic diets and one of them is paleo or autoimmune paleo, they are too restrictive and for the virus are not necessary. They will rob you off very important anti inflammatory nutrients like molybdenum, they will backfire. And I've done a lot of damage control when people really restrict so much and at certain point these diets start backfiring and people have nowhere to go.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 28:00

Do you think short term there is a place for a very restrictive diet and then

Dr. Kasia Kines 28:03

short term but but what is the reason for it to figure out why you are in that place. So in terms of EBV where people stray is number one that diet number two ketogenic diet, it's too much fat for the liver. The liver is really taxed by the virus, okay. Okay, a lot more toxicity on the liver. And so it doesn't have the capacity to deal with ketogenic diet. It's very, very rare that I hear somebody thriving on ketogenic diet with EBV it's almost unheard of, and I would really steer people away from it. Another thing that people do wrong is Tobia of fruits. First have the highest antioxidant load and anti oxidants incapacitate the virus. So I literally have to retrain people to have a have photographs of a big bowl of organic fruits. No so people can conceptualize I can eat all these cherries, that one go yes, you can eat all these cherries. That one girl. I can you know, yesterday I ate half of small watermelon. Organic Of course, people have to have permission literally to enjoy fruits between meals as a great snack. No, it's just the there's so many antioxidants in it. And that's what the virus doesn't like. The more antioxidants you have, the stronger protection you have. These are simple things to do.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 29:32

Yeah, very good. Of course the curiosity in me now wants to know what foods are high in molybdenum that patients restrict grains and beans, grains and beans. Okay, legumes and grains. Yes, so gluten free grains Yes, gluten free grain.

Dr. Kasia Kines 29:46

If you want to rebuild you know it's if you look at the science if you look at physiology if you want to rebuild and strengthen your immune system. You can drive it with gluten free grains and legumes because they provide the substrate For your microbiome, to create short chain fatty acids and short chain fatty acids, what we don't know is that part of those phe d o t reg cells, literally, t regs are your superstars of immune navy seals. I

Dr. Stephanie Gray 30:15

say that Yeah, your Navy SEALs I love it. Yes, exactly.

Dr. Kasia Kines 30:19

They can downregulate autoimmune T cells. They can they can do a lot of stuff. But they need short chain fatty acid. And this is what your our microbiome are good bacteria produce this. If they have dinner, and what they eat is fiber. legumes are a perfect example of fiber. And you can't eat enough vegetables to sustain yourself. On the Paleo You have to eat meat, meat, vegetables, very little food, nothing really else. Yeah, it's not sustainable. And so if people cannot tolerate gluten free grains or legumes, they they need help figuring out why the gut is so compromised. Because even if people react to lectins are gluten and you can do a test cyrax is a great test. They look at particular legumes, you can have sensitivity to one legume, but not the other. So people people take a blanket up like, you know, shotgun approach and restrict a whole group. Maybe start with mung beans. They're very gentle on the gods. Yep, they don't have to be so there is a delicious mung bean soup in the book recipe.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 31:32

Yeah, you have a lot of great recipes in your book. Yeah.

Dr. Kasia Kines 31:36

They're delicious. So I would say no open open up a little bit. And no of course work with a practitioner like yourself if you have a lot of intolerances to foods because that that needs to be addressed.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 31:50

You probably know vitamin D based on its relationship to seasonal affective disorder or sad in the winter. And it's true. people experiencing sad generally have low levels of vitamin but vitamin D isn't just beneficial during the cold dark winter months. I've tested 1000s of my patients vitamin D levels over the years and rarely do I find that the patient doesn't need to supplement regardless of the time of year. Vitamin D is a steroid vitamin A group of fat soluble pro hormones that are best known for the role they play in supporting bone health, and aiding in the absorption of calcium and phosphate from the gastrointestinal tract. However, a growing body of research highlights its important role in supporting other body systems as well, including cardiovascular and blood sugar balance, as well as increasing musculoskeletal strength, neurologic and immune function enabled by its ability to target over 200 different genes throughout the body. At the same time, deficiency and insufficiency of this important nutrient has reached epidemic proportions around the world, making the achievement of optimal levels extremely important to overall health.

Known as a sunshine vitamin, yes, you can get some from the sun, but fish and milk are also decent sources as well. But if you listen to this podcast, you know I'm not one to recommend dairy. So it's best to supplement and it's best to have your levels tested to see how low you are and how high of a dose you need to take. We carry 1005 1000 international units of vitamin d3 with and without kaitou as well as a 50,000 iu dose pack. Usually patients take that high dose pack short term, use code vitamin D for 10% off these products at your longevity blueprint calm. Now let's get back to the show. That's foundational. So Above and Beyond Diet. Let's go back to how EBV hijacks NF Kappa b which is pro inflammatory so bad, right? So in your book, you say the higher the NF Kappa b the higher? Well, I think you said the higher the NF Kappa b, the more viral replication can be expected. So which we don't want. So let's talk about I want to talk about antiviral supportive nutrients. I want to talk about nutrients, botanicals, antioxidants, and maybe we maybe we will go in that order. So let's talk about nutrients first, and then we'll go to herbs.

Dr. Kasia Kines 33:57

So basically, like I said, if you want to simplify it, the better nutritional status, the weaker the virus, we have the responsibility to provide the best nutrients. What does that mean investing in organics, and we talked about microbiome and building the immune system. So plant matter, fiber, so more plant foods, Whole Foods, unadulterated, whole plant foods, yes, whatever that is, plus fruits. If you do that, then then you suddenly turn down the volume because you're you're providing a lot more antioxidants in your diet. There. It doesn't have antioxidants really, except one. Meat is not high. In antioxidants, the plants are decreasing toxicity comes from fiber because you knew that poop and the stool is how we in golf toxins, including toxins created by the virus, so simple things like that. So there's tons of nutrients and then Most important nutrients are those that multitask as antioxidants, notably selenium, for example. Yes, selenium, you you work with psi right. So you know the value of selenium. You know the value for the liver for Messiah, I mean it's a multitasker and we're not getting enough of it because the soil is depleted. And so there's a little competition for it. Even 200 micrograms of selenium has been shown in some studies to have the capacity to turn off the passion motor through cellulitis or immunity. Not that it happens all the time but we drive higher we drive it all the way to 800 micrograms and if you if you go that route, you're gonna see vitamin C, Vitamin E,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:43

zinc, obviously zinc is popular, obviously.

Dr. Kasia Kines 35:47

Absolutely zinc, vitamin D, and then we go into special botanicals like licorice, I would say licorice is number one.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 35:56

We haven't talked about licorice a lot on the show so let's talk about licorice.

Dr. Kasia Kines 36:00

Yeah, licorice I don't drive the protocol based on botanicals because they do not match what we need. So botanicals for me are junk so the way I use botanicals is simplest way is through drinking hot herbal teas with meals or between meals because this way you know you have to drink something you still have a little bit of modulation but I there's so much to do with supplements with EBV that herbs are not worth it except licorice.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 36:30

You have a whole chapter on teas I think in your book.

Dr. Kasia Kines 36:33

Yes because people you know are familiar with the tea and they can make a difference even just drinking licorice tea. Yeah can make a difference.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 36:42

I didn't realize licorice had antiviral capabilities I know that licorice can extend the half life of cortisol so it can be good for the adrenal is good for energy whatnot, but I didn't know what had antiviral components.

Dr. Kasia Kines 36:52

Yes, it cannot be the ghost rated it has to be the real glycerin. Yes, it has to have it because that's the antiviral yes it has gamma interferon just like vitamin C and these are the gamma interferon is a very powerful tool against the virus and it is fabulous. Badri knows this This community has low adrenal power they are so ways that you can pick you up so yes it is fabulous people are afraid of licorice because of the blood pressure and so you don't want to you know if it overstimulates you you'll know he just tone it down or start with a tea and don't take in the evening because you'll be wide awake it can increase blood pressure so if somebody has high blood pressure obviously it's not a good thing to take and I would say somebody has blood pressure that is high higher functional practitioner or clinical nutritionist and and stabilize your diet change your lifestyle bring that high blood pressure to normal yeah

Dr. Stephanie Gray 37:52

I like that you're driving home you're not going to cure this virus by just taking herbs like that's not what you're saying. But But your book does mention that herbs can be supportive or adjunctive. So what are some other herbs that you like to use

Dr. Kasia Kines 38:03

in supplements The only ones that I like to use if there are co infections especially if you have h pylori and gram positive Gram negative bacteria and fungus like Candida all of the backstrap I was just gonna ask you yes but all over the back strap I wouldn't do more than two months and then I would retest all the other pathogens and also unique probiotics because you'll be killing everything it's pretty robust sure, but it turns off the virus too and for some people when we have resistance and we're not hitting the markers we want I'll go for that because that's a heavy lifter it doesn't have yes heavy hitter it doesn't have the capacities that antioxidants do it just kills sure about what we're trying to do is not to kill so much but to turn off the virus because we're providing so many tools that the virus is incapacitated and we're building the immune system we're building the cells we're providing nutrients cell nutrients that are antioxidants, like we'll discuss.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 39:05

Yeah, let's let's go back to antioxidants. Yes,

Dr. Kasia Kines 39:09

they're just better at delivering

Dr. Stephanie Gray 39:11

so good with ion you mentioned Selenium is also a nutrient and antioxidant.

Dr. Kasia Kines 39:15

Yeah, so I don't use blue Sapphire. And the reason why I'm not using ion is is that I prefer to use building blocks so the body can assess and use make as much iron as it needs. Because I am can be hard on people and it's expensive. But I use Selenium and Nic and acetylcysteine Yep. And I see is paramount and it also supports the liver. It's a multitasker. It's an antioxidant, all the good things that we discussed. And so when you have that combo, then you start to turn down the virus that's much more effective that just close the file. Sure, sure. And then there's last thing we talked about that yeah, amino acid Yeah, yeah, and I see is an amino acid. lysine is an amino acid. So building blocks again, model Got scars on it, you know herpes, herpes viruses, hey glycine,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 40:04

so you use a lot of lysine now do so for the listeners. If you've ever had a cold sore you may have taken lysine at some point to help treat that cold sore which is from the herpes virus, again, are all different types of herpes viruses out there. I have found in my patients who eat a lot of nuts like high arginine diets, they'll deplete lysine and then they find themselves in that situation so you want to make sure you're not eating too many foods that are too high and Argentine that you but I saw I do see the value in and using lysine Do you primarily use lysine or do you ever use antiviral medications?

Dr. Kasia Kines 40:35

Let me address the lysine and arginine okay. I understand that claim and it is correct however, again we don't have to restrict knots. You can enjoy knots if you have strong glycine if you have strong lice and yeah okay and so when when you have lysine supplement when you you know you can enjoy foods and you will not back you know you can have some knots you will not backfire, you will not have more reactivation because of that.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 41:00

What dose Do you use of lysine? Usually,

Dr. Kasia Kines 41:03

I actually feel that I play it pretty safe. We could go higher, I imagine we will go 1500 twice a day or 1003 times a day. You could certainly go higher if you work with somebody. Sure for this is more for chronic quite again for chronic Yeah. medication. Do you use medications and your patients? antiviral medications? I am not a prescribing provider. I have three resources that are consistent. So I'll tell you number one is medical literature. medical literature consistently says antiviral medications have low efficacy. Number two, I am biased because people that I talked to are the people that have not responded to antiviral medication. That's why they still seeking help, right? So my point of view is bias me in terms of the community, because I talk to a lot of people a lot of people reach out to me and I would say 95% will say medication did not help them. Number three, I trained practitioners, medical doctors do those functional practitioners. We just had a training in February and we had that discussion. Medications Do you use them? Yes, I do. So what happens useless, huh? They still use it in combination. So in functional medicine, the conundrum that practitioners have is I use botanical medicine and sometimes antiviral medications and this and that I hit them from all the sides I'm not really moving the needle because they're not strategic and medication doesn't do the trick. Unfortunate

Dr. Stephanie Gray 42:40

interesting earlier in this interview you've talked about the importance of detoxification So how important is that how important is detoxification to antiviral support and in treating EBV

Dr. Kasia Kines 42:52

the virus is very toxic creates a lot of toxicity so we talked about those and pooping because that's how we endow toxic debris from the system. Then when people try to kill ABB when you kill pathogens you know that's why I don't use olive leaf extract as a first door or lower side and I don't like roller siding because they kill Why would you kill

Dr. Stephanie Gray 43:17

yeah I mean I use that in my patients so sometimes we need to kill don't we well if

Dr. Kasia Kines 43:21

you kill if you start killing pathogens in a person that is already compromised, doesn't have strong adrenal function, doesn't have strong immune function. Have a lot of stress they basically so weak, there's too much they don't have strong foundations The house is not being built they don't have the roof like is that you know, you have to build them up I build people up I tell them we building the bricks then we put the plumbing then we put the you know then they can handle it. When you start killing really fast people get toxic and really sick we call it a die off right? It's not worth it. When you kill virus like any pathogen sometimes did that debris is more toxic than the life pathogen was and it's really not worth it. People don't have the tools they don't know how to eliminate it they know get it out of the system. It's not worth it. lower side and is Laura Sidon is good if you have h pylori, Candida EBV and gram positive bacteria like stuff if I if I'm great. So that's basically

Dr. Stephanie Gray 44:27

a potent coconut extract for the listeners. Right that monolaurin lubricin. Yep,

Dr. Kasia Kines 44:32

guess what it doesn't do? It doesn't don't do. It's not scillonian it's not the building block. It doesn't do any of that. It doesn't provide any nutrients. It doesn't do anything. It only kills. What do you have a patient in front of you and they have a budget for supplements and only one mouth to open. Which supplements Do you want to pick I will not pick Laura aside unless somebody is on it and is thriving. I don't see that too often.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 44:55

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If you want more, however, you can easily double the dose of the product. And it can also be combined with your daily complete multivitamin or my favorite product mitochondrial complex. Research has shown that those taking this blend of nutrients fare much better with illnesses like viruses, making this the perfect time of year to stock up on immune support. In addition to being a fantastic option for anybody looking to boost immune reserves and support a healthy immune response, a bottle of immune support would fit perfect and your loved ones holiday stocking use cold immune support for 10% off that your longevity blueprint calm. Now back to the show. You also mentioned the importance of reducing EMF. So I think because you said EMF can drive up I think he said it can drive up the virus. And I know, we have talked on this podcast about how emfs are bad for mold. But tell me how emfs are bad for viruses.

Dr. Kasia Kines 46:42

Interestingly, yeah, math is bad for mold. And so in the community in our community with EBV, that doesn't respond and cannot get out of the EBV cycle. mold is number one, suspect that corporate, when you have a combination of more Wi Fi and EBV Good luck to you. So we have to turn down the EBV definitely. There's also a little bit more spiritual aspects of the EBD community at least that's what I see there is a pattern, more empathetic people, we call them empaths. These are healers. These are people who have Sixth Sense, they are more sensitive to subtle energies, they may be in healing practices, they may not because they may not even know this community is more susceptible to Wi Fi technology as well. And so I always ask people with EBV how sensitive are you? And oftentimes I would say it's like 75% will say, Yeah, I can't have too much online time or screen time I get really sick from it. So there was an old study on early antigen being turned on with very conservative level of Wi Fi. It wasn't even it was before Wi Fi. It's an old old study.

But that study made me think and so I started to kind of investigate and pay attention. And so that's the that's the pattern that I see in people. And so it's very, very simple things that you can do turned off the blue light box or bag your router in Florida, I bought this inexpensive, you know find out if you have smart meter or if you have it no boxes if you can you get it, you know, in some states, you don't have the rights. In Pennsylvania, you don't have the right but other states, you can request that they take it out and reinstall the analog. So you know, just kind of being oriented, it's a little bit like hygiene, you'll have to brush your teeth twice a day, we have Wi Fi technology all over us. You just have to be aware of it and turn it down.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 48:42

Absolutely. For listeners that's bothering Oh, yeah, she's wearing blue light blocking glasses. For the listeners, I have two really long blogs on ways to reduce EMF as well. So you have to check those out. So Dr. Collins, you have mentioned so many variables that can contribute to I mean, well, you mentioned what how the virus can contribute to chronic disease. And then you've mentioned what you help your patients do really rebuild, I would say their their home, per se you, you help with those building blocks. Now this may still seem a little discouraging to the listeners. And I hate even asking this question. But how long do you feel like viruses take to treat and then follow that up with all your amazing, you know, cases where patients have recovered. And so from my experience for the listeners, viruses are very difficult to treat. I mean that's that's how I have approached it with patients and that this isn't like you take a medication for vaginal yeast infection and you're better in 24 hours. This is a long term. I don't want to say fight. But this is something that patients have to manage. And so for many of my patients, I can take a very long time, but I'm interested to hear your response to that. How long do these viruses take to treat and then tell us the good news that they can be?

Dr. Kasia Kines 49:52

No. Oh, that's very good news. That's why I love what I do because actually, Dr. flavanone proved in our study She had a case of 50 boys with enlarged spleen, hospitalized. She was able to reverse engineers though explains within 2448 hours. Wow, the virus is predictable. It's treatable and reversible and sometimes rapidly. And I'm quoting, Wow, I didn't know her. I remember I was I was ready to publish the book. And I literally last day stumbled upon her study out of the blue guide universe, you know, I had to find that. And this is why I could make a claim in the book because I had a quote from medical literature that there she is. And I looked at a protocol in the study, and it was exactly what we discuss. It's exactly what I'm doing. And I had a medical doctor recently Tell me, you know, my daughter had enlarged spleen. And because you had that study on your website, I follow that. And I was we were able to reverse engineering within 24 hours, kids, our class kids respond fast. But for chronic, well, right now there is a student who has a chronic quad very chronic EBV. And she's in her 20s, late 20s. And after a couple of days, one week or two weeks, she thought she was cured. Wow, of course, she was it. Yeah.

But she was able, she was like, I couldn't believe it. I went skating. And then I was able to deliver a lecture to business communities. Like I didn't know I had the capacity. It's like, this is like normal. I'm normal again. But then of course, you tanked because she didn't understand that she had to she was not out of the woods. Yes, yes. She had to understand the reactivation factors and so on, so forth. Once we went through it, she was so empowered to Okay, I got it. I know what to do. So the story is sometimes it's a couple of months, sometimes it's a couple of weeks. So it just depends. If it's CPV, it's pretty straightforward. And it's predictable. The problems are when there's co infections when there's mold. And people don't even know they have mold until a few months later that finally discovered that there are the Wi Fi technology is just so powerful and they don't realize, or they're just co infections like h pylori. No, there's just complications. The complications are where it gets you. Yes, if it's just the period, straightforward.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 52:16

I like how you said that. Yeah, I should have rephrase. I think the complex cases because many times we're not just dealing with viruses, let's be real, we're dealing with a lot of things at once. So those patients, they can take longer to treat, but we have to approach them the same way lay the foundation, get the diet under control, reduce stress, help detox the body, and then we can add some of the supportive adjunctive nutrients and whatnot. So that is very promising. So I like hearing that and it through this podcast, we have referenced your website. So let's come back to the website tell us where listeners can find you. And the quiz that you have on your website,

Dr. Kasia Kines 52:48

ABV health hvlp.com as simple as that. The only thing I haven't put there is the diet, because I haven't had time. But resources are there researchers their medical conditions are associated with or caused by are there and they're all reference. So you can click on this and go to PubMed. Everything is there different pages that you know the graph for labs, how to interpret them. There's even direct to consumer lab because people sometimes spend two, three years looking for a doctor willing to test literally what shouldn't be. And then if they pass, they do the three markers or two and not four, and you know how it goes and people waste years not knowing what they have. So there are direct to consumer labs that people need to know. They don't need a doctor, they can go and test and get the reports in email or online in 24 hours. I know exactly what's going on. So we make sure that we have everything that people need. There's a link to my book, there is a quiz and what else was the question? So the

Dr. Stephanie Gray 53:48

quiz yeah the quizzes to see if you have potentially have chronic EBV right?

Dr. Kasia Kines 53:53

Yes, because there's there's typical and atypical presentations there's types of autoimmunity there's types of cancer I listed all of those four pages of check off list so you can track all I had rheumatoid idiopathic rheumatoid arthritis when I was a teenager or a child and nobody knew why. Well that's a classic presentation lupus is classic presentation low platelets or nosebleeds or mosquito bite sensitivity these are medically studied presentations that are there people are not aware so there's just all kinds of things in this quiz when people can realize you know, I didn't know these are there's relationship between all these things that have happened to me so it's really good to look at that fascinating

Dr. Stephanie Gray 54:36

I want to take that quiz because yeah, yeah, your wealth of knowledge. Awesome. Well tell me what your top longevity tip would be

Dr. Kasia Kines 54:43

my top longevity physiologically or more on a deeper level. either or both. Okay physiologically, have three meals. Please don't skip breakfast.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 54:58

Want to expand on that? So many people are into intermittent fasting these days. And I've I mean, breakfast has always been I mean, I, I need to eat, I need to eat breakfast I just that's me.

Dr. Kasia Kines 55:10

Yes, please do not do intermittent fasting. If you have chronic EBV, that is not appropriate. Just a ketogenic diet, I have to actually write three worst offenders when you have EBV. And it's going to be intermittent fasting, exercise and ketogenic diet. The adrenals are really, in a lot of stress in that community. If it's chronic, and you need to provide, you need to provide good carbs, good intervals, you need to nourish the adrenals they thrive on good carbs, you need to have those meals. Yeah,

Dr. Stephanie Gray 55:49

when you're restricting the foods, you're actually stressing your adrenals even more, and you need the adrenals when you're trying to recover. So I guess I hear you on that night,

Dr. Kasia Kines 55:58

I would say an average Joe, that over eats is john goes to McDonald's is overweight. The intermittent fasting is for those people, but not for for people EBV. They need nourishment, they need steady meals, they need to come down the brain, the brain needs glucose, it needs to be steady meals. And the lunch should be between noon and 130 noon and 130. That's the time for lunch. physiologically, this is where you eat the biggest meal and has to be a solid meal.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 56:30

What was your second answer here, though, that's good. Now I want to hear your deeper longevity to

Dr. Kasia Kines 56:35

deeper longevity as following your heart and doing what you love. And in order to do that, you have to have a better way to love yourself and forgive and understand that you are lucky enough that you are enough that you came to this planet, when I guess you have a zone of genius. It's something to serve as something we can make this planet different better. And people get stuck in the wrong jobs, wrong careers, for wrong reasons. And if you just find a way to open the heart and love yourself just because of who you are, then you'll be more likely to do what you love. Just like what I did. You know I love what I do. I just take one step and I listen, what am I supposed to do next? How am I supposed to serve? When you do what you love, you'll have joy. And joy is one of the most powerful healing tools you have in your life. We need more joy and it comes from love that you are enough.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 57:38

Love it great way to end the show. Yeah. Well thank you for coming on today and bringing attention to something that just so many people suffer for from years or even decades, because they don't get the right test and they don't know what to do with the results. So thank you also for providing the laundry list of symptoms and conditions that EBV can cause and most importantly, thank you for training practitioners like myself and just sharing with the audience steps they can take to feel their best. So thanks for coming on the show.

Dr. Kasia Kines 58:05

Absolutely. My pleasure. Consumers also have a program online, they can jump in and do it too. We have everything I'm trying to line everything up. And we're also adding health coaches will be training those. So I really want everyone to find their place in this journey and heal. You don't have to be L years.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 58:23

EBV help.com. Right. I say that right? Awesome. You are a bunch of help. Thank you, Dr. Klein.

Dr. Kasia Kines 58:31

My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Stephanie Gray 58:36

So interesting. I need to dive back into her book The epstein barr virus solution. It's jam packed with helpful information. I'll post links in the show notes to three options for you to connect with Dr kinds. For anyone struggling with epstein barr virus. She has a mini course as well as epstein barr virus recovery program. And for practitioners she offers a workshop which I plan to attend, please check out those links and grab a copy of her book. Be sure to check out my book your longevity blueprint and if you aren't much of a reader, you're in luck. You can now take my course online where I walk you through each chapter in the book plus for a limited time the course is 50% off. Check this offer out at your longevity blueprint comm and click the course tab. One of the biggest things you can do to support the show and help us reach more listeners is to subscribe to the show. Leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I do read all the reviews and would truly love to hear your suggestions for show topics guests and for how you're applying what you learn on the show to create your own longevity blueprint. The podcast is produced by the team at counterweight creative as always thank you so much for listening and remember, wellness is waiting.

The information provided in this podcast is educational no information provided should be considered to be or used as a substitute for medical advice. Notice or treatment. Always consult with your personal medical authority.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai